AP vs Bunker/Pillboxes

[Mobhack]

Bunkers are already treated as not 100% proof - some effect from non-penetrating hits does "leak through" and kill defenders. But bunker crews are usually quite large...

With AP, it is best to manoeuvre till you get a shot at the weakest face - which is usually the firing slit at the front. AP has less HE kill effect, so if knocking on the sides He works best - try using e,g the SU-152 that has an all-HE load-out.

In MBT, bunkers are suicide machines from the time that 105mm APDS etc is common since the penetration scores of those over-match most field fortifications, though there are some "fortress" types with high defences. In MBT. If defending then about the only bunker type I look at is the ones with the 360 degree HMG as a good suppressor while they last and use those to protect a few with a Milan or similar, with TI vision. In WW2, the AT bunkers with a decent ATG are my go-to items, if thee is somewhere to plonk them with a good field of fire, and hopefully the enemy wont cover them with smoke (the simple counter till you get ones with TI in MBT).

The main advantage of bunkers though is that they do resist an artillery preparatory bombardment rather well, better than troops in trenches other than a fire trench/AT Ditch. So if your regular opponent likes to "mow the lawn" with a creeping barrage, they can be handy. But using the points on mines or dragons teeth is probably a better investment until those that can see through smoke arrive.

In WW2, a section of 2 Marders which will dig in, and can then move to react to the enemy (if the barrage does not do them in!) is maybe even better.

[Imp]

Noticed earlier posts mentioned long campaigns, if you have one or 2 tanks with high experience these are your bunker busters.
90 plus experience close up stationary firer you stand a good chance of a critical hit after a few shots at the same target.
Same goes for engineers with FT demo charges, do not move and attack in the same turn, a bit of patience pays dividends.

[jivemi]

Sorry to be a pain about this but in a just-completed battle as Brits vs Italians in late 1940 a couple Matilda IIs with max PEN of 7, no APCR, took out bunkers from the side and rear with armor values of 20 for both. In this save the tank at Hex 32,46 has just taken out the one at Hex 39,40. The previous turn its mate (now at Hex 31,44) took out the one at 33,43 from the rear:

[Imp]

Bunkers are not like vehicles with regard to armour even small arms fire can penetrate and kill those manning it if your lucky.

Not looked at your save but continuous close fire at a bunker normally creates a critical hit pretty quickly.

An experienced crew firing stationary from 1 or 2 hexes have a high probability of a quick kill. Same goes for high experience troops armed with demo or flame so long as you wait for them to be stationary before attacking.

[jivemi]

There's no opening at the side or rear. How can AP rounds with max pen of 7 get through 20cm of steel at 4 or 500 meters with one or two shots each? Infantry was not a factor.

[Mobhack]

Bunkers are not steel - they are concrete, logs or earthworks considered permeable to fire in the SP universe. Even rifle fire will cause occasional casualties to a maginot line type mega-bunker.

They are really just field works in this game rather than say the sort of WW1 type of deep bunker that could resist a Somme type barrage over weeks. A "SP WW1" Somme bombardment would kill everything in such a fortified line in a game hour or 2.

That is probably done for game play balance - you would have to ask the original SSI team as to why. The same applies to the ease of clearing tactical obstacles like wire and mines, DT etc.

[zovs66]

Think splinters. When those small (or big) rounds hit the side/rear of a concrete, log, brick or whatever bunker, there will be nasty things flying around inside that death hole. The only place I have read about using 'steel' was on Iwo Jima where the Japanese used 'steel' doors to hide their guns behind in caves.

Random stuff happens in this game and I love it. Had a Stug IIIE once get 3 kills in one turn, then could not hit anything the for 5 turns and then got whacked by some hidden Russian AT gun. Great fun stuff!

Also, had a CG I created where the Russians had bunkers, and I shell the crap out of them but it took to long for me to cross the river and when I got across to my surprise they started shooting at me, had to bring the tanks across and shoot them to kill them, took a couple of turns. One was really pesky, had it surrounded by 3 squads and two Pz II's and a Pz III and it finally died after 3 to 4 turns. Had another that took one shot from a 20mm and it got a critical hit. Love the randomness and the realism this game offers!

[jivemi]

Thanks for the explications folks. They've convinced me to drop any objections to combat results with bunkers. Carry on and have a great day. Cheers!