Question In Contact determination - Page 3

Mobhack · #21 November 28th, 2018, 09:43 PM

A0 rallies everyone in contact with him in the A company as if a company commander.

A0 can rally any subordinate company commander if in contact.

A0 can rally subordinates of one of those companies, if he is within shouting distance (3-5 hexes or so). So if he wants to rally a routing herd, he has to get in amongst them. And then he might manage 1 or 2 rallies before failing one and his rally goes to 0 for the rest of the turn.

No magic to it really. And not worth agonising over. If he is close enough, he can do it sometimes - but its not 100% reliable.

Imp · #22 November 28th, 2018, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felix Nephthys

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imp

Okay that's wrong maybe this is why people get so involved with it lets put it another way.

1) HQ can rally any unit on the map regardless of who it is attached to.
2) Company Commander can rally anyone attached to its company.
3) Squad/Unit Commander can rally anyone in its squad/unit.
4) Every other unit (not a 0) can only rally its self.

So Your example
DO can rally anyone in D
CO can rally anyone in C
BO can rally anyone in B plus anyone in C and D as he is company commander.
AO can rally everyone.

B is the worst platoon because it has no separate company commander so he has to do double duty looking after his squad and the company. Only A0 and BO can help them where as C and D can be helped by AO, BO and there respective commander.

Simple once you get it and why you should cross attach extras like ATGM teams to get the extra rally from the company commander.

Therefore doing something dangerous like clearing mines.
Company commander should stay back in an attempt to avoid expected artillery.
4 Squad platoon I would keep that commander back to, 3 its tricky depends on circumstance.
Company and squad commander are now hopefully in good order so do not need to rally themselves which they do first so can help the grunts who as I said should take most of the heat.
Applies most cases taking a fortification for example Platoon commander could rally a squad from pinned status letting it move adjacent if its stayed out of trouble. Rally the squad then if need be draw the last fire with the Platoon leader as an example.

Please try and rally unit C0 in my saved game here and you will see that I'm right in what I have been saying, the A0 unit cannot rally EVERY unit on the map, only the ones in units DIRECTLY under it's command as listed in it's command structure in the HQ screen.

Worked perfectly he rallied himself to 2 suppressed then failed and A0 rallied him to zero.

To be clear in this save formations F,G,H are not assigned to any company so default to A0 only.
I have all preferences on except tank heavy.
Before starting you could have cross attached them to B0s company so B0 could help rally them also.

Pretty sure I attached the scouts when I played this one.

Imp · #23 November 28th, 2018, 10:34 PM

Actually I cant have attached the scouts as its a scenario but I wanted to and would if it was a battle.

Felix Nephthys · #24 November 28th, 2018, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felix Nephthys

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imp

Okay that's wrong maybe this is why people get so involved with it lets put it another way.

1) HQ can rally any unit on the map regardless of who it is attached to.
2) Company Commander can rally anyone attached to its company.
3) Squad/Unit Commander can rally anyone in its squad/unit.
4) Every other unit (not a 0) can only rally its self.

So Your example
DO can rally anyone in D
CO can rally anyone in C
BO can rally anyone in B plus anyone in C and D as he is company commander.
AO can rally everyone.

B is the worst platoon because it has no separate company commander so he has to do double duty looking after his squad and the company. Only A0 and BO can help them where as C and D can be helped by AO, BO and there respective commander.

Simple once you get it and why you should cross attach extras like ATGM teams to get the extra rally from the company commander.

Therefore doing something dangerous like clearing mines.
Company commander should stay back in an attempt to avoid expected artillery.
4 Squad platoon I would keep that commander back to, 3 its tricky depends on circumstance.
Company and squad commander are now hopefully in good order so do not need to rally themselves which they do first so can help the grunts who as I said should take most of the heat.
Applies most cases taking a fortification for example Platoon commander could rally a squad from pinned status letting it move adjacent if its stayed out of trouble. Rally the squad then if need be draw the last fire with the Platoon leader as an example.

Please try and rally unit C0 in my saved game here and you will see that I'm right in what I have been saying, the A0 unit cannot rally EVERY unit on the map, only the ones in units DIRECTLY under it's command as listed in it's command structure in the HQ screen.

Worked perfectly he rallied himself to 2 suppressed then failed and A0 rallied him to zero.

To be clear in this save formations F,G,H are not assigned to any company so default to A0 only.
I have all preferences on except tank heavy.
Before starting you could have cross attached them to B0s company so B0 could help rally them also.

Pretty sure I attached the scouts when I played this one.

Well on my computer if C0 can't rally itself down to 1 and B0 fails to rally C0 down to 1 then on their unit screens the Rally stat shows 0, which is as it should be. However, A0 will show no change on it's own Rally stat as it will not even ATTEMPT to rally C0, even if B0 and A0 are stacked in the exact same hex as C0. This behavior has been this way since I first began playing this game (at least 9 years I'd say), and I am not the only one who experiences this (see this thread with a couple posts by RightDeve http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=51883). I stand by what I see and I know I'm not delusional. It is this way on WW2 and also MBT.

Felix Nephthys · #25 November 29th, 2018, 07:22 AM

Three additional saves are attached to this message. In each one there is a C0 unit with the A0 unit close by. In each instance, if the C0 unit fails to rally itself to 1 suppression it will not get rallied by the A0 unit for the reasons I've already stated in my previous posts. In each case there is no company commander within 5 hexes to provide an additional rally to the C0 unit, thereby ruling out any confusion as to what unit would provide a rally attempt to each C0 unit, the A0 unit is the only other x0 unit within the 5 hex range of the C0 units.

Mobhack · #26 November 29th, 2018, 01:02 PM

It looks like the "A0 rallies everyone if close by" thing is another of these SP "folklore" items that have been "accepted" by all (including me!

) since the year dot. probably from something stated on some old usenet forum or suchlike in the 90s...

looking at the actual rally code - A0 will only rally his subordinates, i.e. anyone attached to his A company (which includes company commanders for B, C etc as well as random platoons not individually attached to B,C etc coy). He is just another company commander.

So any rally that I or others may have seen with A0 will have been company command elements, or unattached platoon commanders or subunits of such platoons.

No big deal really, just another reason to keep A0 in the proper place - somewhere on the back line and away from all combat.

I may include a new test to see if A0 is nearby to give units a wee boost to their rally chance though.

RetLT · #27 November 29th, 2018, 01:49 PM

I recently had had a case where a mortar unit was in the same hex as my A0 but was out of contact. Neither unit was suppressed.

I'm thinking there is a die roll involved here.

Mobhack · #28 November 29th, 2018, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RetLT

I recently had had a case where a mortar unit was in the same hex as my A0 but was out of contact. Neither unit was suppressed.

I'm thinking there is a die roll involved here.

Of course there are many random numbers in several subroutines involved.

There is no "be within 3 hexes and you are automagically connected" rule - 50 metres is half a football field, perfectly normal that one bunch of 4-5 guys may not be talking to another little group that far away. In reality (not from the player-as-God point of view), neither may even know of the other's presence.

RetLT · #29 November 29th, 2018, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mobhack

Quote:

Originally Posted by RetLT

I recently had had a case where a mortar unit was in the same hex as my A0 but was out of contact. Neither unit was suppressed.

I'm thinking there is a die roll involved here.

Of course there are many random numbers in several subroutines involved.

There is no "be within 3 hexes and you are automagically connected" rule - 50 metres is half a football field, perfectly normal that one bunch of 4-5 guys may not be talking to another little group that far away. In reality (not from the player-as-God point of view), neither may even know of the other's presence.

As a former supervisor I can confirm that this is true.

Felix Nephthys · #30 March 23rd, 2019, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mobhack

It looks like the "A0 rallies everyone if close by" thing is another of these SP "folklore" items that have been "accepted" by all (including me!

) since the year dot. probably from something stated on some old usenet forum or suchlike in the 90s...

looking at the actual rally code - A0 will only rally his subordinates, i.e. anyone attached to his A company (which includes company commanders for B, C etc as well as random platoons not individually attached to B,C etc coy). He is just another company commander.

So any rally that I or others may have seen with A0 will have been company command elements, or unattached platoon commanders or subunits of such platoons.

No big deal really, just another reason to keep A0 in the proper place - somewhere on the back line and away from all combat.

I may include a new test to see if A0 is nearby to give units a wee boost to their rally chance though.

Will this stay the same as it has been for the next update?