Snowdrifts

[Suhiir]

I've managed to damage Hinds (armor 2? weren't they 4 pre 2019?) with Stingers (warhead 4) BUT even when you hit it's only like 1 in 4 that causes damage, the rest bounce off.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

The German 8.8 cm/88mm Flak 18/36/37/41/43 series was probably the best all around anti-aircraft/anti-tank and artillery weapon of WWII and a bit beyond.

So what kills planes, jets and UAV's? Shrapnel. You have to keep things in context here, we play a game based on a 50 meter hex or if you will 54.7 yards or again 164 feet (Slightly rounded off.) side to side.

And inside of this you have one of the above craft jinxing etc. to as they said when taking out the "Death Star" "Stay on Target, Stay on Target" Well good luck with your AP round hitting your target.

The A-10, HIND , APACHE and on and on again are armored to protect the pilots and vital areas of the aircraft from shrapnel causing damage to fuel, electrical and hydraulic systems. By definition this includes the airframe and aerial surfaces to some extent as well.

HE shrapnel will shred an engine which is why SAM's work the way they do (See Ref. below) or even AA. But there's more to it then that so here's another Ref both from well respected "Think Tanks"...
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu...-warthog-52677

How to kill a plane and well, avoid being killed.
http://ausairpower.net/TE-Evading-Missiles.html

In artillery and I could careless of what type we're talking about, "Proximity" is what kills something. Shrapnel, Percussion (Shock Wave) that'll liquefy your internal organs and the occasional and lucky direct hit depending on your point of view.

And now I start to digress, so back to the top most artillery pieces have proved themselves with or without some modification to be very effective in a multi roles as AA, Artillery and Anti-Tank roles such as the Pak-88.

If you were to tell me a modern day SPA unit couldn't (And don't kid yourselves on the following that they can't.) take out a modern tank in direct fire or using their FCS to target a tank, well you'd be wrong.

But the Pak 88 wasn't FCS assisted compared to systems of today or earlier "yesterday" but, it has proven itself to be one of the most effective Anti-Tank guns made in its time and a bit beyond. That should cover the AP round issue to some extent.

And there is the case of the French M3 AA Quad 50's (3 I believe.) at DIEN BIEN PHU ask the VIET-MINH how they felt about them. REALLY didn't like them too much.

Did I talk about measurements!?! I know, I know, but that is a game reality now isn't it!?! There is one last measurement that applies here as well and that is Time, Speed and Distance a lot of math seems to go into these things now don't they!?! Or as we would apply in Submarine Navigation sometimes you just need a little "PFM", which could mean many things to many people!

Good Something to you all, for me this weekend is a little about reflection and remembering.

The 2 or 3 Threads on CM Artillery etc. will provide a much better understanding of the issues thus far discussed in this area.

I almost forgot, this Thread was about "Snowdrifts". Well lets just say this about that, snowdrifts up to 30,000ft or higher would not, I repeat not, be good for any type of aircraft manned or unmanned!! However it would relieve of the need for any another anti-air systems. So there you have "Snowdrifts" are EFFECTIVE against any weapons well especially up to or higher then 30,000ft. Just a thought.

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

Or as we would apply in Submarine Navigation sometimes you just need a little "PFM", which could mean many things to many people!
Regards,
Pat

Acronym Definition
PFM Public Financial Management
PFM Planning and Financial Management (budgeting)
PFM Porcelain Fused to Metal
PFM Portfolio Management
PFM Pulse Frequency Modulation
PFM Pacific Fast Mail (model railroads; Seattle, WA)
PFM Premiata Forneria Marconi (band)
PFM Plan For Maintenance
PFM Pray for Me
PFM Personal Finance Manager
PFM Program Financial Management
PFM Postscript Font Metrics
PFM Process Facility Modification
PFM Personal File Manager
PFM Please Forgive Me
PFM Produkte für Die Medizin AG (medical equipment producer, Cologne, Germany)
PFM Prison Fellowship Ministries
PFM Printer Font Metrics
PFM Picture Framing Magazine
PFM Pulsed Force Mode
PFM Provident Fund Management (software)
PFM Pension Funds Management (various locations)
PFM Portal Farmaceutyczno-Medyczny (Polish: Pharmaceutical and Medical Portal)
PFM Pelvic Floor Muscle
PFM Pipe Facing Machine (various companies)
PFM Proto-Flight Model (NASA satellite model)
PFM Professional Flight Management
PFM Process Flow Model
PFM Pink Floyd Meddle (album)
PFM Pitchfork Media (online music review)
PFM Peyton Freaking Manning (football player)
PFM Pre-Flight Message
PFM Pen for Men (Sheaffer fountain pen)
PFM Parietal Foramina
PFM Pink Fish Media (music forum)
PFM Project Formulation Manager
PFM Porsche Flug Motor (automobiles)
PFM Progressive Future Music (band)
PFM Participatory Forestry Management
PFM Premises Facilities Management
PFM Pure Freaking Magic (polite form)
PFM Proximity Fragmentation Mine (Turok 2 game)
PFM Power Factor Module
PFM Packet Forwarding Module
PFM Port Filtering Mode
PFM Precision Flight Mode
PFM Personnel Files Maintenance
PFM Parts Forecasting Model
PFM Philippine Faith Mission (Zambales, Philippines)
PFM Prospective Faculty Member
PFM Probabilistic Forecast Model
PFM Potential Fresh Meat (roller derby)
PFM Polyurethane Fiberglass Mat
PFM Prefaulted Module
PFM Postal Finance Marts (India)
PFM Process Facilities Modification
PFM Pro-Active Fault Management
PFM Proxy Formation Model (paleoclimate research)
PFM Preventive Fleet Maintenance (Indianapolis, IN)

[Imp]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

I've managed to damage Hinds (armor 2? weren't they 4 pre 2019?) with Stingers (warhead 4) BUT even when you hit it's only like 1 in 4 that causes damage, the rest bounce off.

That’s inline with what I have noticed hence stated warhead size 6 for a reasonable chance to do damage probably higher to always damage.
If I get a chance will do a test be nice to find the where a SAM has a high probability of a kill vs 2 armour but a low one vs 4 armour if poss.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

John,
You might have this info already, but if not, it might be useful to have some warhead info, in this case for the Stinger.
http://www.military-today.com/missiles/stinger.htm

And Don, thank you for that very informative post. I think he figured out what "PFM" really is.

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

And Don, thank you for that very informative post. I think he figured out what "PFM" really is.

Regards,
Pat

.......just pointing out there are quite a number to choose from

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don't worry, I knew you were having your fun and "running with the ball". I got kick out of it and it put a much needed smile on my face!!

Regards,
Pat