Soviet OOB11 - 2020 - Page 4

MarkSheppard · #1 January 2nd, 2021, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRG

I am surprised they were burnt. Nothing says " here we are" like a bunch of burning gliders

Well, gliders need a lot of space to land safely, especially if you're landing more than one. If you're a German patrol in an area, finding a bunch of gliders in an empty field is going to be a big alarm signal "ACHTUNG PARTISANEN"

Presumably what they did was try and chop them up with axes for firewood (since they were wooden) and drag away as many pieces that could be rendered draggable, and then burn the remainder.

I would imagine that as long as you kept the fire below a certain size, the Germans wouldn't investigate -- it's 1942 and canned propane for camping stoves isn't yet a thing for a long time; and there would be a lot of civilian population out and about doing things.

EDIT: The SOP for Soviet Glider Landings for Partisan support was to have an "airfield" that was carefully prepared in the daylight, and then wait for nighttime, and when the friendly plane was overhead that night (presumably flashing running lights in a code pattern), light a series of bonfires to lay out the path of the "runway" for glider landing.

Another thing I realized regarding bonfires -- gliders are pretty big and have a pretty regular shape -- they'd be easily spottable from the air, and not every airfield is going be laid out allowing gliders to be draggable into the woods or placed under cover before the morning Fiesler storch observation flight by the Anti-Partisan Group.

DRG · #2 January 4th, 2021, 01:26 PM

With the scale I'm using the difference in size is not really all that much even though the wingspan is 18 feet less for the ANT-7/R-6 vs the TB-1

and when all is said and done what's really been added to the game ? The R-6 was a recce aircraft but not an artillery spotter as we use them in the game. There was an ANT-18 ground attack version but info on that is sparse ( but as it's referred to as "ANT-18" it suggests this never reached production ).

I did find mention that the bomb load was only 113.4 kg (250 lb) of bombs.....that's hardly a game changer and that's the same bomb load as the Polikarpov R-5 that's already in the OOB. If flight range was important in the game then that would make it useful but we don't and in the end there would be two aircraft from the early 30's nobody will use instead of one that both look more or less the same but one has 1/8th the bomb load

EDIT........https://www.globalsecurity.org/milit...ssia/ant-7.htm

Quote:

Armament - 3 pairs of machine guns and 500 kg of bombs on the external sling.

if that is true then maybe....**Maybe** it might be worth putting into the OOB....maybe .....as a "light bomber" in UC44 where it *might* get some use.

blazejos · #3 January 5th, 2021, 07:09 AM

Great that you prepared this smaller version even if is probably not worth the burden in game terms. Too early and to small difference to other soviet OOB's aircrafts

but if you talked about this meaby:

of course bomber until 1935/1936 which is just another not so different version of TB-1 but after that propostion as a transport (paratrooper aircraft in game terms)

from https://www.globalsecurity.org/milit...ssia/ant-7.htm

Quote:

The R-6 aircraft and its modifications were in the first line of the Red Army Air Force until the second half of the 30s. During the Great Patriotic War, the P-6 was widely used for reconnaissance, communication between headquarters, supply of partisan bases and units of the regular army operating in the rear of the enemy, ammunition, spare parts, fuel. The car towed the gliders, landed on the partisan "airfields", taking out the wounded and the glider pilots (gliders were destroyed).

R-6 will be great aircraft to use in this discuses earlier in this post scenario of supply soviet partisans if was important as a gilder tug and aircraft which carry small detachment of paratroopers or carry ammunition supply canisters to drop them for partisans units. Especially in early times of soviet supply missions around Moscow in 1941/1942 Vyazma operation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyazma_airborne_operation until 1943 partisants supplly in Byelorusia when more Li-2 were introduced and probably R-6 were relegated to duties far from front-line Siberia and Arctica.

DRG · #4 January 5th, 2021, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blazejos

Quote:

The R-6 aircraft and its modifications were in the first line of the Red Army Air Force until the second half of the 30s. During the Great Patriotic War, the P-6 was widely used for reconnaissance, communication between headquarters, supply of partisan bases and units of the regular army operating in the rear of the enemy, ammunition, spare parts, fuel. The car towed the gliders, landed on the partisan "airfields", taking out the wounded and the glider pilots (gliders were destroyed).

R-6 will be great aircraft to use in this discuses earlier in this post scenario of supply soviet partisans

NO..... NONE of those uses are supported in the game and we're not going to add them. There is no evidence to support the idea that they carried paras. By that time there were far more capable aircraft available for that. We don't include glider tugs or air landings in the game so the aircraft may have been used that way but we don't use them in the game and that is not going to change

DRG · #5 January 5th, 2021, 07:19 AM

Just for fun........

MarkSheppard · #6 January 6th, 2021, 08:21 PM

Since we're now talking old Soviet stuff:

https://desantura.ru/articles/16/?SHOWALL_1=1

Quote:

Therefore, in the last major pre-war maneuvers of the airborne troops in August 1940, only the obsolete corrugated giants TB-3 participated. The exercise simulated the capture of the Migalovo airfield near Kalinin (now Tver). Two aviation regiments were involved - the 3rd and 7th TBAP. First, 26 TB-3s landed a battalion of paratroopers, then they dropped cargo from three P-5s. One TB-3 also dropped two motorcycles and two cargo bags by parachute. The paratroopers "captured" the airfield and began to receive the landing force. Nine T-37A tanks and two artillery batteries - 76-mm and 45-mm guns were unloaded from the planes.

So basically, looks like if you're simulating late 1930s airborne operations, you have to have your heavy stuff unloaded on the ground after an airhead is captured (Shades of 1950s US Airborne concepts).

DRG · #7 January 7th, 2021, 08:15 AM

More likely, the '50's concepts were reused 30's concepts with new equipment added

DRG · #8 January 21st, 2021, 06:45 PM

Dig through your Russian Books and tell me if the Soviet Bt-7A was used as SP-Arty firing indirect one source I saw ( https://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/w...-Artillery.php ) didn't specially say they fired indirect but that the gun ..

Quote:

"At its maximum elevation of 24 degrees, the gun could arc shells up to an effective range of 4,200 meters"

.......and you don't (normally) see references to arcing shells 4,200 meters for direct LOS firing

blazejos · #9 January 23rd, 2021, 09:32 AM

I haven't information about that BT-7A were use in indirect fire or not but d'like to mention that in http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=51835 are new icons for BT tanks and I rember that I created new icon of BT-7A tower based on tower schematics which maby beter than this used now in this tank there is even this experimental variant BT-7 with 76mm F32 if you dlike fine tune BT-7A inside game

DRG · #10 January 23rd, 2021, 09:57 AM

Yes I know all about your BT extravaganza and three of the four SHP files are now in the game and when I find an icon or unit that I feel should be added to the OOB's it goes in and the 7A was one of them and why I started asking about its use as SP arty as the wording of some of the descriptions of its use seems to suggest it was.