Ukraine 2021(?)

[Karagin]

Seems that Germany sent a bunch of duds to Ukraine, many of the MPADs are not working, thing is they sent old Igla MPADs, 700 of which have failed to fire. Along with moldy ammo for AKs and other WP weapons. I guess they didn't sell off all that old East German stock of weapons and ammo. But hey it's the thought that counts...

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by Karagin

Seems that Germany sent a bunch of duds to Ukraine, many of the MPADs are not working, thing is they sent old Igla MPADs, 700 of which have failed to fire. Along with moldy ammo for AKs and other WP weapons. I guess they didn't sell off all that old East German stock of weapons and ammo. But hey it's the thought that counts...

Germany gave 500 Stingers and 1000 PzF 3, and German government claims, that they arrived to Ukraine on Wednesday (2 March). I guess there are no complaints concerning them.

Just about that time it was announced, that Germany would give also 2700 ex-DDR Strelas (I assume Strela-2M?), but German press revealed, that according to Bundeswehr reports, only around 2000 are still useful. Sadly, Germany is unjustly criticized for this decision in some scandal-seeking media, which do not mention Stingers... Anyway, I think, that it's better to have extra 2000 Strelas at hand, than nothing (even with its mediocre hit probability, and limited rather to running out aircraft, showing exhaust).

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Germans were saving that East German equipment for a "rainy day" which is what probably happened inside those ammo bunkers!?! That's my theory anyway.

KMW however, has offered from their own stockpile to send I BELIEVE the number was 50 GEPHARD SPAA to the Ukraine. They were (Almost 2 weeks ago now.) prepping them for shipment to include some minor updates to Radar and FCS.

1. Pending Govt. approval which is likely now.

2. How to setup training on the systems for the Ukrainian troops are the issues of concern at this time.

Ashamed about the STRELA's if true, they at least might've been effective to a degree against the Russia helicopters.

I feel good about my assessment of I made about the fighting qualities of the Ukrainian military prior to the invasion, they took what everyone gave them training wise to include an extensive portion devoted to "nationalism" and "pride of service" to their country.

I'm under no illusions here (Though I really hope I'm wrong and they pull off the 1936 Winter War Finland won.) but the situation is very dyer I think in the long term. That being said, I at the same time feel Putin waited 8yrs too long. He should've kept going in 2014. And before someone says something, I'm glad he didn't.

Also have seen several reports earlier on that the Russians are running around with a fair amount T-72B3 tanks and I've seen a couple of videos where the turrets had been blown off of them (~3 or 4. Usually, a sign they were taken out by top attack ATGM, ours or UK's. How? By the ERA Pkg. on them for one.

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

Germans were saving that East German equipment for a "rainy day" which is what probably happened inside those ammo bunkers!?! That's my theory anyway.

Yeah that does make sense. I recall from back in the 80's buying surplus 8mm ammo that had been OBVIOUSLY sand blasted to remove storage corrosion. Interestingly, I do not recall many misfires from it

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

KMW however, has offered from their own stockpile to send I BELIEVE the number was 50 GEPHARD SPAA to Ukraine. They were (Almost 2 weeks ago now.) prepping them for shipment to include some minor updates to Radar and FCS.

https://militaryleak.com/2022/03/02/...ag-to-ukraine/

[DRG]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

Ashamed about the STRELA's if true, they at least might've been effective to a degree against the Russia helicopters.

What seemed odd about that report from the start was they ( theoretically ) would not have had them all that long but reported 700 didn't work...... that's a lot of missiles flying around. I realize there are a lot of targets but still, it seems odd in that short of time it would be known that out of 2700 reported that they PLANNED to send on March 3 that it would be known in so short a time that 700 failed to fire

It doesn't add up

[MarkSheppard]

Originally Posted by DRG

What seemed odd about that report from the start was they ( theoretically ) would not have had them all that long but reported 700 didn't work...... that's a lot of missiles flying around. I realize there are a lot of targets but still, it seems odd in that short of time it would be known that out of 2700 reported that they PLANNED to send on March 3 that it would be known in so short a time that 700 failed to fire

It doesn't add up

military stuff gets issued in batches and lot numbers, all of which have serials. Ukraine could have encountered a "failure to fire" rate that was unacceptably high in some batches of SA-7s sent to them by Germany, and unilaterally decided that those entire batches are to be considered "bad", rather than try and take the time to figure out which ones may still work.

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by DRG

What seemed odd about that report from the start was they ( theoretically ) would not have had them all that long but reported 700 didn't work...... that's a lot of missiles flying around. I realize there are a lot of targets but still, it seems odd in that short of time it would be known that out of 2700 reported that they PLANNED to send on March 3 that it would be known in so short a time that 700 failed to fire

It doesn't add up

Apparently if you do the long-term service check for those missiles (which has been now done after the pull-out from long storage it would seem) it involves a full strip down to the motor core component level. Also a very critical part seems to be the ejection/launching charge as well.

Look inside these parts and if you see cracks in the solid fuel, then it is toast - so back to the factory or (since that is not possible here) - off to the bin with it.

(From some discussion I read somewhere on t'inernet - maybe tanknet forums?)

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by DRG

What seemed odd about that report from the start was they ( theoretically ) would not have had them all that long but reported 700 didn't work...... that's a lot of missiles flying around. I realize there are a lot of targets but still, it seems odd in that short of time it would be known that out of 2700 reported that they PLANNED to send on March 3 that it would be known in so short a time that 700 failed to fire

It doesn't add up

When this subject appeared on 4 March, Strelas had not been sent by that date, and only German Spiegel magazine revealed (what for?...), that according to Waffenamt (or something similar) report, probably only around 2000 of 2700 are useful. By that date there was no decision taken to send them. Bundeswehr answered anyway, that all equipment would be verified before sending.