Defeating the Talisman

Skulky · #1 September 2nd, 2002, 05:35 AM

You all been to http://home.earthlink.net/~petemmer/ ? its pretty good but needs some updating, im just wondering if they guy who started it is still around cause this should be in a new spot called "countering the racials." also what about not gettting any racial and goign like +30 or more in offense and defense and normal bonus' like that? just a thought.

O and as to combined arms:

Quote:

And I must point out that Combined arms( I have yet to try it) would probably win the day Missile Boats, Fighters, Drones, Beam Barges, And good ole dreadnoughts can probably go head to head with a Talisman fleet. At least that is what my Navel stratgist tell me.

I think unless you had tactical on you wouldn't get nearly as nice results with a few ships, once you start dealing with 20+ ship fleets then you would get pretty nice results IIRC. hummm im just rambling

Undertakr · #2 September 2nd, 2002, 07:34 AM

Missle ships are pretty worthless against the talisman, once I see that's how you're going I just make extra PDC's and the talisman hits your missles 100% of the time (and missles usually do weak damage and have delays of more than 2 turns.)

If you go with beam weapons, you have to get close enough to me to where I hit you 100% of the time every single turn (Phased) and even if you have phased shields, I will get through them or I'll use Null Space and definately get through them.

Fighters are the same as missles, you better have a boat load (few hundred) to do any good against a talismaned fleet of dreads. I've had my fleet of 20 talisman dreads take out 60 fighters without blinking. I've taken our 40 dreads and lost 2 ships with my fleet of 23. Talisman thumps and thumps hard.

Fyron · #3 September 2nd, 2002, 07:40 AM

Why not stick a Worm Hole Beam on every ship? Spread those Talisman ships all over the battle field, and take them out one by one.

Phoenix-D · #4 September 2nd, 2002, 08:23 AM

Undertakr, the Talisman is effective but it isn't everything. Particularlly since you are giving your opponent 110kt over you, if he's smart. 50kt Talisman + 30 Stealth + 30 Scattering + 10 ECM -10 sensors.

See, he can't dodge you anyway.. so he doesn't NEED those extra things. Just sensors. You on the other hand do need them, to dodge his shots.

PDCs are hyper-accurate even without the talisman. so that part is irrelevent..

Or your opponent can just take a page from military history and hit you when HE is ready, not when you are. It's an advantage, not a holy grail (pun not intended)

Phoenix-D

Undertakr · #5 September 2nd, 2002, 09:58 AM

Problem is, in a game with 12 players, someone can't remove all their stuff from their ships to just take on a Talismaned fleet. They have to have all the extras to go fight the other races as well. (Or do some retrofitting I suppose.)

Bottom line is, if you don't get your fleet to 20% experience, you don't hit enough to worry a Talismaned fleet at all. 2 of us with Religion have destroyed 9 of the people in our game with a total of 4 fleets. About 90 ships. We have destroyed well over 300 ships and lost about 30 of our own, so the Talisman is quite effective, at least it was in the game we're about to finish up.

The only thing that did quite a bit of damage is the Tacyon Cannon for the Temporals, that hurt me pretty well and the Time Distortion Bursts rocked me too.

- takr

Pax · #6 September 3rd, 2002, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertakr:
Problem is, in a game with 12 players, someone can't remove all their stuff from their ships to just take on a Talismaned fleet. They have to have all the extras to go fight the other races as well. (Or do some retrofitting I suppose.)

Sure they can -- they just have to convince "everyone else" to play along, while the Talisman-wielders get smished. Sort of a "kill you Last" agreement.

Quote:

Bottom line is, if you don't get your fleet to 20% experience, you don't hit enough to worry a Talismaned fleet at all. 2 of us with Religion have destroyed 9 of the people in our game with a total of 4 fleets. About 90 ships. We have destroyed well over 300 ships and lost about 30 of our own, so the Talisman is quite effective, at least it was in the game we're about to finish up.

The only thing that did quite a bit of damage is the Tacyon Cannon for the Temporals, that hurt me pretty well and the Time Distortion Bursts rocked me too.

- takr

Depends. A few lucky whacks with ship capture ... and you're in trouble, 'cause some of HIS ships are talisman ships now ...

Also sucks to run into a Religious/Psychic combination; if they can get going ... YOUR shipbuilding efforts merely build HIS fleet. Heh.

geoschmo · #7 September 2nd, 2002, 03:39 PM

So Undertakr, what exactly is the point of all this? You have pointed out nothing new to anyone. The tailsman is tough, but it's not unbeatable. It's only as good as the player using it. A skilled player will do well using just about any combination, and an unskilled player is going to lose even if they use the Tailsman.

It is impossible for anyone to come up with one strategy that will beat the tailsman player under every circumstances. But the same could be said about any other possible empire setup. I could come out here and say, "Organic race is the ultimate racial trait" and give my resaons why. You and everyone else could give me suggestions for beating someone using organic race, and I could then give you my plans for dealing with your stragegies. All of it is purely theoretical and doesn't prove anything. Any more than the fact that you and your fellow religious player were able to beat 9 other players.

I had a PBW game a while back where I was non-racial tech player. I had just various characteristic bonuses. I allied with another player that was organic I think and we cleared the game of everyone else, including religious players. What does that prove? Just that we did a better job in that particular game. Nothing more, nothing less.

Geoschmo