Proportions mod: So confusing!

Suicide Junkie · #1 October 22nd, 2002, 06:42 PM

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it takes too long to get a productive planetary space yard even on your first colony and you can not keep up with just one homeworld spaceyards.

You will be able to build full capability spaceyards in orbit of planets, though.
You just can't make them mobile, and you can't build them out in the depths of space...
The homeworld would probably end up with tens of Full-ability spaceyards in orbit.

The reduced ability yards could still be used out on the frontiers to replace automated units and vehicles, build defenses, and repair/retrofit.

Colony ships, and large, crewed vessels could only be built by a planet, or any spaceyard base IN ORBIT of a planet.

geoschmo · #2 October 22nd, 2002, 06:56 PM

Oleg, so you want the colony ships buildable at space yards on bases, but not on space yards on ships? Still doable.

You make two separate space yard components. One that is base only, and one that is ship only. The base only one is the same as the current space yard comp, the ship only one has the reduction in organic capacity. And you increase the organic cost of the colony comp, but not so much that the total organic cost of the colony ship is more than the total mineral cost. The result is the colony ships takes the same amount of time it does now on the base yard or planet yard, but much longer on the ship yard.

Already you come close to a solution, but I suppose a determined individual could send his space yard ship to the planet, build a base yard, which will build a colony ship. To reduce that you raise the organic cost of the base only space yard comp.

This is basically the idea SJ proposed, I am simply saying you don't have to eliminate the organic build of these comps entirely. By simply lowering it some, and raiseing the organic cost of the colony comp, you can reach a balance where they are not impossible to build remotly, but can only efficently be built at either planet based or base based yards, not ship based ones.

The only negative ramifications to the AI would be a higher maint bill in organics for any exsisting colony ships. This can be offset by the maint reduction of the colony comp. And if the AI builds a Ship with a ship only space yard and then tries to build a colony ship. It won't criple the AI, but it will tie up that particular ships build queue. Not sure how many AI build those ships though.

Geoschmo

[ October 22, 2002, 17:57: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Fyron · #3 October 22nd, 2002, 08:18 PM

Geo, I normally have my SYS build a BSY first, then it moves to a different planet. The BSY builds the colony ship, and then builds defensive units. So, your solution affects nothing.

geoschmo · #4 October 22nd, 2002, 08:24 PM

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Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Geo, I normally have my SYS build a BSY first, then it moves to a different planet. The BSY builds the colony ship, and then builds defensive units. So, your solution affects nothing.

Of course it does. Because your SYS would take so long to build the BSY you would be better off just building the colony ship at an exsisting BSY or a planetary facility. That's the entire point. The SYS could still build a BSY or a colony ship, but it would be a very inefficent way to do it. It would lose it's edge.

Geoschmo

Fyron · #5 October 22nd, 2002, 08:29 PM

Ok, then that would not be a good solution, if the organics rate is lowered so much that a SYS can't even build a BSY in a reasonable amount of time. What about building up WP defenses? BSYs are necessary there, to get replenishable stores of units and such.

[ October 22, 2002, 19:30: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Suicide Junkie · #6 October 22nd, 2002, 09:05 PM

If you were to require the full-rate BSY to have a whole lot of crew quarters, it would look better regarding its ability to build fully crewed ships

And don't forget the fact that you could still quickly build a spaceyard that makes units and defenses as fast as normal.

Fyron: You can still build a defense base quickly, you just can't build a base with a full-ability spaceyard.

Fyron · #7 October 22nd, 2002, 09:14 PM

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If you were to require the full-rate BSY to have a whole lot of crew quarters, it would look better regarding its ability to build fully crewed ships

Too bad you can't make a component require crew quarters. That would have to be required by the base hull, which would make defense bases require tons of crew too.

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And don't forget the fact that you could still quickly build a spaceyard that makes units and defenses as fast as normal.

That isn't the point. And it screws over Organic races, whos units tend to require lots of organics.

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Fyron: You can still build a defense base quickly, you just can't build a base with a full-ability spaceyard.

You need BSYs there too, not just a few defense bases. And you and Geo are talking about 2 entirely separate systems, so arguements agaisnt one may not apply as well against the other.