PBEM Multiplayer Game: No new positions (was "New Multiplayer Game")

[Karacan]

I personally would very much like to upgrade until the end of the week - the Spell AI alone is worth it, to me at least as a caster-heavy nation.

[rabelais]

Well, I'm playing Machaka, and my research would go to h*ll if we upgraded.

For some reason they decided witch doctors were overpowered at standard research ability.

Which is strange because sorceresses have the same research stats with a nifty spider transform for on 20 gold more. (sigh)

Did I mention these aren't sacred units.

(Which Sorceresses and Black Sorcerors, really should be, with their transform)

Maybe because WD's aren't cap only?

Any Dev Comment?


Rabe the Snarly Self-Interested MPer

[sachmo]

Anyone else have an opinion?

[ywl]

Originally posted by sachmo:
Anyone else have an opinion?

Patching will be good, if not necessary, for the some of the bugs (paralyze, orb lightning).

I generally believe the developers tweak the game balance in the right way. But for us to patch now, it's like changing some of the rules in the middle of the game. Don't know. It depends on how many more of us are affected.

For the record - the patch doesn't affect me in any bad way.

[rabelais]

Dammit! There goes my goddamn research...

I still don't understand why they changed WD's... machaka's mages are too expensive to be overpowered.

Now the WD's are almost useless .... except for forging fever fetishes.

Rabe the Whiny Biatch

[ywl]

Originally posted by rabelais:
Dammit! There goes my goddamn research...

I still don't understand why they changed WD's... machaka's mages are too expensive to be overpowered.

Now the WD's are almost useless .... except for forging fever fetishes.

Rabe the Whiny Biatch

I won't called a non-capital 1 Fire/1 Death/1 Nature Mage useless, especially at the price of 80 gold. Send them out to battle and you'll see how useful they could be. Their Fire and Earth level can be easily raised to 2 with just 1 gems (each).

Man's Bard is 75 and has only 1 Nature. The only mages in the game who have a better value are Utgard's Seithkona.

[rabelais]

Originally posted by ywl:

quote:

---

Originally posted by rabelais:
Dammit! There goes my goddamn research...

I still don't understand why they changed WD's... machaka's mages are too expensive to be overpowered.

Now the WD's are almost useless .... except for forging fever fetishes.

Rabe the Whiny Biatch

I won't called a non-capital 1 Fire/1 Death/1 Nature Mage useless, especially at the price of 80 gold. Send them out to battle and you'll see how useful they could be. Their Fire and Earth level can be easily raised to 2 with just 1 gems (each).

Man's Bard is 75 and has only 1 Nature. The only mages in the game who have a better value are Utgard's Seithkona.

---

The bard is hyperstealthy, caries a standard and agitates very well. It also has spell songs that make its 1N better than it looks.

Different critter.

WD's are ok for combat early, but unless they get a lucky HoF ability, (precision, quickness etc.) they aren't worth the freight. i.e. The micromanagement hell of putting gems (alchemizable no less, what's THAT do to the upkeep math?) on feeble mages to make them slightly less so isn't worth it.

They weren't broken, IMHO.

Machaka has decent mages, but are too expensive.

Only Pangaea and atlantis have such pricey non sacreds.

In any case it's over and done with, I just wish I had known of the "bug" before I bought a bunch as my optimal researcher.


Rabe the Feral Isolationist Cursing Hallucinogen Acclimated Savage

[ywl]

Originally posted by rabelais:

quote:

---

Originally posted by ywl:

quote:

---

Originally posted by rabelais:
Dammit! There goes my goddamn research...

I still don't understand why they changed WD's... machaka's mages are too expensive to be overpowered.

Now the WD's are almost useless .... except for forging fever fetishes.

Rabe the Whiny Biatch

I won't called a non-capital 1 Fire/1 Death/1 Nature Mage useless, especially at the price of 80 gold. Send them out to battle and you'll see how useful they could be. Their Fire and Earth level can be easily raised to 2 with just 1 gems (each).

Man's Bard is 75 and has only 1 Nature. The only mages in the game who have a better value are Utgard's Seithkona.

---

The bard is hyperstealthy, caries a standard and agitates very well. It also has spell songs that make its 1N better than it looks.

Different critter.

WD's are ok for combat early, but unless they get a lucky HoF ability, (precision, quickness etc.) they aren't worth the freight. i.e. The micromanagement hell of putting gems (alchemizable no less, what's THAT do to the upkeep math?) on feeble mages to make them slightly less so isn't worth it.

They weren't broken, IMHO.

Machaka has decent mages, but are too expensive.

Only Pangaea and atlantis have such pricey non sacreds.

In any case it's over and done with, I just wish I had known of the "bug" before I bought a bunch as my optimal researcher.


Rabe the Feral Isolationist Cursing Hallucinogen Acclimated Savage

---

I know that it's frustrating that the rule of the games is changed in the middle of the game. And I wish that the patches can be separated into two branches - one for bugs and one for game changes.

But for discusssion sake. Machaka has very good mages.

Research for Alteration 3, Conjuration 1. Put your witch doctor near the frontline and let them cast "Protection", "Tangle Vines". The former increases all your Hoplite's protection by 7 (to 24!). And the latter immobilize your opponent (Defense to 0). They can even cast "Eagle Eyes", increasing their precision to 15 - give them bows even if you don't like their "useless" spells like Fire Darts or Flying Shards.

For comparison, C'tis Shaman is 110 gold with 2 magic; Abysia's Apprentice Warlock is 150 gold for 3 magic; even Ulm's Master Smith national mage is 140 gold and they have only 3 magic. Even with the research penalty, WD is a super bargain.

Only Machaka's capital mages are expensive. 190 gold for the Sorcerer (4 + 1?) is a bargain. Almost everybody else have more expensive mages. The fact that they're sacred doesn't help as it's the gold you pay upfront matters. Yeah. Check on Abysia's, i.e., my mages and you'll know what expensive mages are. Sorry - getting frustrated playing Abysia . Even the most expensive Black Sorceror is only 250 gold and they turn into spiders after first death... Their price is at worst average - Man's Crone is 230; Abysia's warlock is 270.

Sorry... getting jealous on your mages .

[rabelais]

I agreed the WD's are decent combat mages early.

W/R/T 3 magic: If you are going to have 3 magic... 1/1/1 is much weaker than 2/1 or 3/0 long haul (outside of research), because the spells worth casting once you have decent research... almost always require more than 1 (or even 2 courtesy of a booster) in a path. At which point you use the experienced but no longer combat efficient mages for ... research!

(or forging, which is even more favored by >1 in a path, though this is balanced to some extent by the ease of empowering multipathers.)

Unless it's an extremely crowded map, I tend to think upkeep is much more important than initial cost.

Usually by ~turn 25, 50+% of my income is mage upkeep.

It usually means you have to make infrastructure decisions early, because you won't have the cash to do much once the basic expansion is over.

Not to mention with sacred your boomers are blessable.

I'm not saying machakas mages are bad, I'm just saying that the change is quite large, and not obviously needed.

Machaka has lovely units, but with the exception of the archer, hoplite and priests they are all extremely pricey.

IMHO Pythium Arco Vanheim (etc...) are much stronger, and no nerfing has been seen or even suggested there.


Rabe the Deficit Spender

P.S. I believe... (PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong, that would be great!) ...the spider transforms require you to survive the first hit. This doesn't happen particularly often without specially loading you mages with (many) forgable items.

[ February 24, 2004, 07:32: Message edited by: rabelais ]

[von_Schmidt]

Sounds like you have quite an interesting MP game going. How about a game progress report for us bystanders?