What is the story with those dominion ads??

[Foodstamp]

Dominions allows you to kill people by the thousands including sacrificing virgins. This game allows you to practice magic, and become a god. There is nothing wholesome about this game in the traditional sense. Yet, clothed women put in a little banner with the words "I want my Dominions" offends you all?

I am absolutely amazed that people find violence and murder more acceptable than sexuality. It reminds me of where Hillary Clinton freaked out over GTA. She wasn't angry that you could run around town killing old ladies with a shotgun. She wasn't disgusted by the fact that the primary character is a drug dealer, car thief etc. What offended her was the possibility you could download a mod a view a sexual scene in the game.

Most people will have sex at least once in their lives I hope. While I would hope no one ever has to kill anyone, sacrifice a virgin, or attempt to ascend to god hood through murder of their neighbors. Yet, in our societies, sexuality is more taboo than these other things. Makes no sense at all, period.

[capnq]

Tim Brooks said:

All I can say is that it must be hard for you living in the world we do with that attitude.

Yes, it is. Most of us recognize that complaining about it isn't going to make one whit of difference, though, so we don't bother.

If you don't like the ads, don't buy our products and don't frequent our site.

I already own every available Shrapnel product that I'm interested in, and there's only one more thing in the pipeline that I was planning to buy before this sophomoric ad campaign started.

If I didn't feel that monitoring the Space Empires forum was part of my "duties" as an admin for the Play-By-Web site, I would cut back on my visits to Shrapnel's site until this travesty burned itself out.

[Humakty]

I fully agree with foodstamp, and others saying that they can't see the point about complaining on a relatively decent (hey, they're dressed, ever seen a shampoo ad on TV ?) advertisment, when I spend my games killing thousands of people, sacrificing virgins and sending my succubus seduce commanders (I guess they have to do more than a single smile...).

Oh my god, a woman showing her legs ! And this one doesn't have her tchador on ! She's looking at me in the eyes ! I'll call the pope right now, he'll excomunicate all those heretics at shrapnel games !!

[Sombre]

Foodstamp said:
Dominions allows you to kill people by the thousands including sacrificing virgins. This game allows you to practice magic, and become a god. There is nothing wholesome about this game in the traditional sense. Yet, clothed women put in a little banner with the words "I want my Dominions" offends you all?

I am absolutely amazed that people find violence and murder more acceptable than sexuality. It reminds me of where Hillary Clinton freaked out over GTA. She wasn't angry that you could run around town killing old ladies with a shotgun. She wasn't disgusted by the fact that the primary character is a drug dealer, car thief etc. What offended her was the possibility you could download a mod a view a sexual scene in the game.

Most people will have sex at least once in their lives I hope. While I would hope no one ever has to kill anyone, sacrifice a virgin, or attempt to ascend to god hood through murder of their neighbors. Yet, in our societies, sexuality is more taboo than these other things. Makes no sense at all, period.

So your argument is that complaining about these adverts and playing Dominions 3 means we find violence and murder more acceptable than sexuality? That's ridiculous.

You might have a point if Dominions was using violence, sex and blood sacrifice in a crude and exploitative way to sell copies to idiots. If it was like Postal or a porn game or something,.. but it isn't. It's essentially a fantasy strategy game. It isn't /about/ gratuitous violence. You might have an argument that GTA is, though I would definitely take issue with that too.

These adverts are clear cut. They have nothing to do with dominions or any of its themes. They are just lame sexploitation. And yeah, that's common enough in the industry and beyond. Is that reason to accept it now it's been brought to Dominions 3?

[Endoperez]

I have to say I have only just now begun to accept that some people have really, truly been offended by these ads. I thought the complaints were extrapolated and out of proportion, but I think people really meant them - and have really meant them for over four weeks.


I have trouble finding anything offensive about the ads, so if my earlier comments belittled your opinions and you were offended, I'd like to apologize. I don't understand what this is all about, and I have a feeling I'm not the only one. I think I might have to read both threads and see if I can find what this is all about, by reading everything as if it was written without a hint of humour or sarcasm.

[Tim Brooks]

You might have a point if Dominions was using violence, sex and blood sacrifice in a crude and exploitative way to sell copies to idiots.

It isn't /about/ gratuitous violence.

Come on Sombre. The last three Dominions ads before the "I want my Dominions 3 campaign" showed two factions in battle, a lightening bolt burning up a row of warriors, and a spell being cast to burn up a group of warriors.

Here's some interesting numbers (I am showing this to you guys because I know alot of you are interested in how things work in this crazy business):

First a little background - these are industry wide numbers. An average banner ad campaign will recieve between .10 and .20 percent clickthrus. That is 1/10 of one percent to 2/10 of 1 percent. A campaign is considered successful if it receves .30-.40 percent clickthrus and the top campaings come in at around .50 percent clickthrus.

Now, the last four Dominions 3 banners from January thru March 2008 received an average clickthru rate of .15% with the top banner receiving .20%.

The "I want my Dominions 3" campaign started April 1. We have run 4 banners so far. The average clickthru rate for these banners is .65%!!! The top performing banner's clickthru rate is 1.19%!!!

Since the start of the "I want my Dominions 3" campaign Dominions 3 pageviews are up 53% over the last three months combined. That works out to a 354% increase if taken on a monthly (average) basis. Sales of Dominions 3 are up 20% over last month - and last month Dominions 3 was a monthly special at $7.00 off (I think that was the sale amount).

Now, you can be offended by the ads, that is your right. And you can think less of Shrapnel Games, that is also your right. But the bottom line is that Shrapnel Games is in business to sell games There are many reasons why a developer will choose, or not choose, us to publish their game. But the bottom line is sales, period. If we lose a developer because we offend their sensibilities, well that is too bad, but for a publisher it is much worse if we lose a developer becuase we can't meet or exceed their expectations on sales.

[Sombre]

Come on Sombre. The last three Dominions ads before the "I want my Dominions 3 campaign" showed two factions in battle, a lightening bolt burning up a row of warriors, and a spell being cast to burn up a group of warriors.

Yeah, they showed actual gameplay. They gave an idea of what dom3 is about. Spells, armies, formations of troops fighting huge gods and monsters. If those ads were about using gratuitous violence to sell the product they would have used completely unrelated violent material, just as the current ads use completely unrelated pictures of women.

I can't believe you're seriously comparing the two sets of ads or suggesting the former ones were all about violence. If you had to describe dominions in a few key words, would violent or bloody be amongst them? It would be fair for plenty of games which actually DO use gratuitous violence to sell, but not dom3.

On a related note: Have you actually played dominions 3? I'm starting to doubt it.

[Tim Brooks]

Ahh, gratuitous violence. I was hung up on the violence word. I see now.

If you had to describe dominions in a few key words, would violent or bloody be amongst them?

Well yea, since that was what we were advertising. You know it is very hard to advertise the strategy element of a game. Unless we used a couple of people deep in thought, but then they would be "unrelated pictures" of people which is also taboo. Or are you suggesting that beautiful women may not want their Dominions 3?

Okay, I am just having a go at you. Sorry.

The last I'll say here is what I tell all the people who write us each month saying we are heretics and doing the devils work by publishing fantasy and role playing games:

Opinions vary, please feel free not to support us.

[Shigure]

I can't speak for the others who are annoyed by the ad campaign, but I can tell you why I do not like it: not because it is offensive (as you say, the image is tame), but because it is insulting. The ad is basically saying "We know our target audience, and we think they are shallow enough that the best way to lure them in is with a cheesecake shot and a generic quote". Now, maybe it's true. Probably it is true, which is why you are finding so many people who are overreacting to it -- nothing hurts like the truth. But regardless of whether it's true, there is a perceived insult there.

(And don't try with the "you're not our target audience; you already bought the game!" line again. In a technical sense it is true, but all of us were part of that target audience at one point, and buying Dominions didn't magically grant us a resistence to pretty ladies.)

[Tim Brooks]

Or men, and I'm not talking about fat'n'hairy porn stars put in as a gag. I want boys so pretty that they'd make straight men go gay.

and

I demand a new Dominions add with a Bog Monster, and a sword, and blood. And the lady from the first ad. Or I will never pay for a sixth copy of Dominions III. Unless
I make another geeky friend.

DryaUnda & Tuidjy:

Marketing asked me to inform you that they are listening. Check back on Sunday...