OT: Bible Discussion (Split from Real World Sensitivities)

[Tifone]

My dear Badger please take a breath and re-read Slippery's post in its integrity

I think you are quite taking the quote out of its context. SlipperyJim stated clearly that he believes in building something great together despite of the differences of believing. Feeding the poor etc.

But you must accept that he (as his religion commands) believes in a somewhat invisible force that continues to live after s.o.'s death (belief that was born far before Christians and Jews, so not so strange... it was actually existing beyond Neanderthals, far before new earth creationists think the world was even born but that's another story) and that this force must be preserved from evil after death - even the one of other ppl - as a moral duty. This leads him to believe that some teachings are as important, or even more important (counting for a literal "eternity"), than feeding those poor people - just live with it. But he never said feeding and helping poors is useless. The contrary.

Plz, don't ruin your nice words of mutual acceptance because of that. Slippery may have used words me and you don't like too much but I'm sure his intentions are good - and his efforts directed even in more "physical life" (we would call it "real life" maybe ) ways

Best wishes

PS also remind that Slippery doesn't represent an entire faith of religion - our friend is a self-proclaimed (as far as I understood) fundamentalist evangelical Christian, so extending his ideas (good or bad) to an entire community of believers should be done with great caution.

[HoneyBadger]

I'm not saying anything against SlipperyJim, or against his religion. I have absolutely nothing against him, and I've stated the few things I have against his religion-neither of which are primary to it, and one of which is entirely in disagreement with what his religion stands for-and yet, has been circling closer and closer to the core of it's message-as it is spread.

I'm just saying that I'm not compatible with it, and I gave the quote as a prime example why that's the case. And as I mentioned, he's just serving as a representative of that religion-and as far as I can tell, has the best of intentions.

Maybe you should re-read what I wrote?

I'm not attempting to be anything less than accepting and welcoming of other points of view-sadly, some of those views are not my own, which is why I can make statements about the strength of variety and differences.

Please try not to find antagonism within simple disagreement. My desire is that we all get along, but that desire doesn't subjugate my own point of view.

[Tifone]

Originally Posted by Bwaha

Tifone I didn't mean to offend you or anyone else. I apologize if I did.

Wait, wait! You have nothing to apologize... I understood what you wrote. Mine was a totally unrelated thought. Don't worry, you didn't offend anyone at all

Thanks for having expressed your reasons also. Nothing that I didn't know already (I know the Scriptures ^_^ ) but it's always good to listen someone explaining his life styles and choices

[HoneyBadger]

JaghataiKhan: I appreciate that you're earnest in your beliefs, and I realize that English isn't your first language, but every time I try to decypher what you wrote up there, my eyes cross of their own volition.

That's not helping us to understand you, or you to get your message across.

Could you maybe calm down a bit and give that back to us more slowly, with little words?

[Bwaha]

Hi, here's a thought. Suppose I was a doctor looking for a cure for aids, and I found one. Then the company that I was working for decided that they didn't want it revealed because of some stupid reason. Then they threaten me with jail or worse if I divulge this information. Would I risk my life to save people that I don't know? Of course I would freely share this knowledge despite the ramifications. The God of Israel has said he will destroy this world and all that are on it. Then He said I will give anyone a way to get off this rock before it goes. Further more He gave us the choice to escape this fate.

Suns go nova all the time. This means that whole ecosystems, and dare i say it, civilizations go poof... If some alien came and said your planet was going to be destroyed and he will rescue all who would get on his ship. But you have to do something that seems silly first. Would you do it?

I've got a proposition for you, I would like to see if there's a measurable change in a person when they are in a normal state versus being filled with the Holy Spirit. If there was, would you take it as proof of the existence of God? Or would you say its just a change in the energy state of said person. When God uses me to heal people I feel a charge of energy that I can't hold back. Totally being filled to overflowing. The energy is not from me. I'm simply a conduit. I've seen some pretty amazing things, so for me there is absolutely no doubt in my mind.

[thejeff]

I've read way to much science fiction to get on a ship with any old alien who comes along claiming the Earth's going to be destroyed. I want to see the evidence.

You're offering a miraculous solution to a problem that I don't believe exists.

As for your "measurable change", as far as I know no such thing has ever been shown. If you've got evidence, bring it on. I'd like to compare it with studies of similar states from other religions. Reports of such states are not limited to Christianity and appear to go back the earliest shamanistic traditions. Many of the more mystical eastern traditions have exercises dedicated to producing similar things at will. All of which suggests to me that it's some inherent potential in people rather than produced by a specific God.

[Bwaha]

I volunteer to be subject to testing, a mri maybe? Does anyone have access to one?

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by thejeff

Reports of such states are not limited to Christianity and appear to go back the earliest shamanistic traditions. Many of the more mystical eastern traditions have exercises dedicated to producing similar things at will. All of which suggests to me that it's some inherent potential in people rather than produced by a specific God.

Furthermore, even if they are linked and granted in some way by some specific god - they are apparently not linked to the specific faith, thus proving that he is not as biased as some would like you to think.

Remember that religion is a competitive industry, and most people only tithe or donate to one church at a time. Worship is money, my friend.

[HoneyBadger]

Aliens showing up, asking me to do silly things, doesn't seem like sound philosophical basis to live one's life by.

And-instead of AIDS-what if you discovered a cure for homosexuality? Would you freely inject it into any gay people who crossed your path, whether or not they were content to be gay?

[Tifone]

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

Worship is money, my friend.

Better, my friend. Worship is POWER. Absolute power on people, for being the voice of the absolute truth, which can "give" absolute joy if obeyed and absolute torment if not. What is money compared to this?

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

And-instead of AIDS-what if you discovered a cure for homosexuality?

You know it isn't a disease at all, ya? It's like saying, a cure for being... tall or... brown haired