Tip: Template for reducing late game MM hell

[Sombre]

It's usually bad to remove options, but that doesn't necessarily equate to removing or changing elements. You could quite well be increasing game options by removing a feature which distorts the game or prevents other features from being realised as intended.

In terms of this thread, the fact that some dominant strategies tend towards micromanagement can remove the option of playing competitively if you simply don't have the time or willpower to deal with the MM.

[Sombre]

Hammers removed to eliminate micro makes sense because hammers themselves add virtually nothing to the game but are incredibly common and powerful to the point that you essentially have to use them.

Not many things like that.

[Micah]

I disagree that hammers add nothing to the game. It may look like it at first glance since virtually all forging uses them, but they do have an effect.

Hammers enforce a steady flow of forging. Without them you could have all your mages churn out items at the drop of a hat with no penalty. Thus I think they do add some depth to the game, since you're rewarded for planning your item needs in advance.

I also think the amount of MM they cause is overstated, most of my hammers stay on the same mage turn after turn, and when they don't the addition of the l hotkey makes swapping them a breeze (it was a lot nastier when you had to navigate the scroll menu, especially since forging tends to be done where there are a lot of units.) Most of the mm-intensive forging headaches I run into are due to booster shuffling, not hammer shuffling.

Regardless, it seems from the various responses that the issue is contentious enough to make their removal in any sort of widely-used mod a failure, though I suppose they could be included in the optional section if Wraith wants.

[Sombre]

You mean MA Pythium? LA Ermor? They certainly are weak to make up for their extra gem income.

I can't think of any others which differ in national site income. I certainly haven't seen people complaining about the way these nations pay for their higher gem income in other areas.

[Psycho]

MA Pythium is weak?

[Sombre]

Sarcasm is possible?

[Calahan]

Weak as a day old kitten.

[Squirrelloid]

Yes, lets set events rare and make there be absolutely no reason to take anything but misfortune 2-3...

Seriously, Luck isn't good enough as it is, lets not make it any more tempting to get points off the luck-misfortune scale.

[Makinus]

It appears more or less agreed that forging is one of the bigger MM causes in the game, and it was suggested to eliminate hammers... what about increasing forging costs? would not that decrease the forging rush? In this way forged itens would be more rare and you would give artifacts only to the most important units.

[thejeff]

Increasing forging costs just makes hammers more critical. And since you can only increase costs by increasing path levels needed, also increase the need for shifting boosters around.

It's not the few high level expensive artifacts that add to MM. It's churning out the dozens of cheap ones for your thugs & mages.