Mod: Warhammer Dwarfs, version 0.92 -- Quickfix

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by mehrunes_dagon

I'm playtestesting Dwarves version 0.7 against other warhammer nations, with mighty AI (=160% bonus). Anvil of doom, when summoned at least every 2nd turn, is a real killer. I'm filling hall of fame with them.

I suggest making them immobile, increasin their gem cost, making the one who summon them 10 years older, increasing research level of the killing runes, or something like that

It's one of those units that will just smash the AI, because the AI just too retarted to come up with anwsers. It's the same thing as with thugs/SC's/BF spells and the like. If you feel like they spoil your SP experience, you can just not summon them. Really, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to come up with anwsers to the Anvils, but the AI is too dumb to use them.

Some examples, just out of my head:
1) Mind Duel (you can easily use S2 mages to duel them, since anvil costs 35 gems, you will easily come out ahead)
2) Fire/Attack Largest commands (Anvils have more hp/size than most units in dwarf armies)
3) Troops with fire & shock resistance
4) Seeking Arrows (2 hits will often kill, 1 cripples their spellcasting with the +5 enc affliction)
5) Disease Demons/ Manifestation (depending on the script of the Anvil)

I have been thinking about making the primal runes cost 10/15 fatigue, but I hardly see a reason for it, since in my testing Anvils seem to start spamming "Paralyze" after running out of script.

Rune of Thunder/Fire really look and seem powerful in game. But one should realize that other nations can get really similiar effect by just bringing mages into battle. Rune of Thunder equals 3 thunderstrikes (admittely with much lower fatigue), which in turn is not that much more amazing than 3 High Seraphs. Rune of Fire basically has the desctuctive power of 3-4 F2 mages going for Falling Fires. And with the fatigue aspect going to waste as soon as the script runs out...

Originally Posted by kianduatha

I do agree though that the Runelord changes have inadvertently made the Anvil of Doom spell too easy to cast; maybe bump it up to Holy-4 or Earth-6?

Earth 6 is a bit problematic, since you'd need two earth boosters to cast the spell, which is pretty hard to do in CBM 1.6(or get really luck out with randoms, since the chance for Runelord E5 with 0.8 randoms is about 2%). H4 would likely be okay, although it's just a logistical problem with prophet placing.

Originally Posted by kianduatha

Speaking of which, the Runelord hero is a bit lackluster these days; Sure, he has S2, which is nice, but before the Runelord changes he was the badass who was actually able to summon Anvils without being prophetized.

I'll probably dwiddle with his paths a bit and make him a bit more thematic too. A1W1F2E3S2H3, the elemental will power represent his ancient knowledge (from the golden empire, when dwarfs were more connected to the elements). I'll give him a pretty big researchpenalty thought (he doesn't share his screts). I might give him H4 too, since that'd make him able to easily power himself up to casting the primal runes (ancient power!).

[rdonj]

I don't really think the primal runes need to cost fatigue either. I have had more luck getting them to continue to fire after the script runs out, but I've only used them against huge chaffy AI armies, so.... Also, when things start getting close to the anvils, their precision is so high that with rune of fire, I've frequently seen all the shots hit one square, which can seriously lower the total damage output on most things.

If you did change the runelord hero like that, he would definitely be much more useful. It would be very tempting to manually site search with him early on, but if he could actually cast the primal runes that would make him pretty awesome.

[Burnsaber]

New version.

Tired.

That is all.

[kianduatha]

It all looks awesome. I can't help but try to find a way to make Runebearers into minithugs for some reason, but then I realize that Journeyman Runesmiths are so much better at it. Clan Kings are a bit rough at 175 gp, but I know I'll still get them. The new heroes look great!

I've actually been liking a nice W4E4S4N4 bless for Runeguards. It gives a bit of everything and allows you to take good scales still. W4 sounds a bit wacky, but it lets you get 20 defense with a single star on the buggers. It really goes a long ways.

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by kianduatha

It all looks awesome. I can't help but try to find a way to make Runebearers into minithugs for some reason, but then I realize that Journeyman Runesmiths are so much better at it.

Yeah, Runebearers make for pretty poor thugs. However they excel in general utility. They are able to quckly transport items to the frontlines from your forging factories and sometimes even bring some miner reinforcements with them. The reinvigoration bonus makes them somewhat better for holding those "quicken boots + spellcasting item" comboes.

Also, ten miners lead by a Runebearer with a Bottle of Living water is quite formiable and very mobile raiding force.

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by Digress

The Skaven would have won through eventually, in my unbiased opinion.

Yeah, Skaven are very well equipped to deal with Dwarfs (lot's of poison). This is quite nice thematically speaking since they are arch enemies in the Warhammer universe.

Originally Posted by Digress

The 40 protection Runic Ward shields on the Runeguards seems too high - maybe they should have some cold resistance added and the shield dialed down.

Originally Posted by rdonj

Reducing the protection of the runic ward is probably not completely unwarranted... 40 is an awful lot of protection for a shield.

I'll keep the Ward as 40 prot, it's supposed to be a great magical force field instead of a real shield (see how Daemon Slayers and the pretenders have it without any visible shields). It's was a mistake to give it to Runeguards. I'll change it for next version by changing their shield to basic dwarf shield and reducing their enc to 1 (to keep it in the level it is now). They'll lose 1 def in the process, but I think that the minor nerf is warranted.

Originally Posted by Digress

Maybe the troll slayers and giant slayers should be low level summons rather than out of the box trample counters. Forcing the player to do some research if they find they have elephants etc. as neighbours.

Originally Posted by rdonj

However I disagree with making slayers unrecruitable. Dwarf armies are so ridiculously slow to build, they need to have a pretty good trample counter available or they are completely screwed. Dwarven magic being what it is, forcing them to have to have strong research out of the gate would be pretty harsh.

It also should be noted how fragile the slayers really are, so they are easily countered in return. 40 gold unit that dies/gets crippled to 1-2 shortbow hits? You can also easily target them by "fire largest" command (they have more hp than most dwarf units). Also, one easy way to target them is to make your mages cast some non-ap/an combat spells (Vine Arrow, Blade Wind, Magma Bolts, Cold blasts,.. etc). The mage AI will use those spells against slayers because they deal more damage to them than the armored line units.

Also, ditto on the research issue.

[Digress]

I didn't want to give the impression that I think the slayers are a huge issue - I just think for "flavours" sake they could be summons (with high upkeep - think of all the beer they drink and associated damage these dudes do to the environment/taverns).

Small gem cost + small research cost + mage time = Slayers + upkeep

I think the way Sombre made the upkeep for the Skaven Globadiers/Warplightning Crews etc. high works pretty well.

I do think the Runeguards could be given some cold resistance - these guys are staunch.

[kianduatha]

If you give Runeguards normal dwarven shields, please give Journeymen Runesmiths #poorleader back.

I'd actually be fine with troll/giant slayers becoming research-0 (maybe Thaum-1) summons. But if so, they should become upkeep-less(makes sense, anyways). 5 gems for a giant slayer, 3 gems for 5 troll slayers? Also while we're at it Dragon Slayers should probably get some fire resist. You know, on principle.

[Sombre]

Well they aren't supposed to actually slay dragons, just fulfil their slayer oath against them (die). I think the point with slayers is that they're named after the level of thing sure to kill them. Trollslayers stand no chance against trolls, giant slayers would be splattered by giants, etc. But a dragon slayer would beat a troll, maybe a giant, no chance against a dragon.

[rdonj]

The reason we gave runeguards the runic wards in the first place was to make them not pointlessly vulnerable to the dwarf's own crossbows. If they go back to the basic shield type they once again become only modestly shielded infantry that deals excessively poorly with crossbows. Please don't

Still don't really like slayers as summons... but if they absolutely have to be, it had better be a gem type that the dwarfs get a very nice income of.


Edit: Okay, so really the runeguards were given runic wards to make them more interesting as sacreds. I guess we'll see if they are still worth using without the runic ward. I am somewhat skeptical, but I'm willing to be proven wrong.