Boiling the Ocean (Started, needs alternate?)

[johnarryn]

Tien Chi has already had to defend itself against three attackers at the same time... having come to this game late, I do not know who started the wars with Pangaea and Agartha, but I do know Helheim attacked me capriciously and without warning.

Yes, I am powerful.... but so are Rlyeh, Abysia and others. Tien Chi has not acted aggressively (at least under its new management) but instead acted to defend itself... and this has naturally led to our expansion. We will continue to defend ourselves against all attackers...

I would also take Helheim's words with a grain of salt, as he has offered to jointly attack a mutual neighbor of ours as part of a considered agreement... Helheim has its own designs and power.

[tromper]

Riiiiight, the fact that T'ien Ch'i leads in at least three, if not four, of the score charts - and the important ones at that, doesn't mean anything at all, eh, buddy?

Poor guy. Leave him alone. Make NAPs now! He has to finish eating up Pangea and who knows what else. *smirk*

Turn it into yet another boring game.

[johnarryn]

Well, what do you expect me to say? "You're right, im big, everyone should kill me?" =)

As I said: Yes, im strong. So are other people. I did, in fact, offer both Pangaea and Helheim treaties, but they have continue their aggression... so I don't really have much choice about fighting them and expanding.

I do understand the need to attack the person who seems to be winning. My neighbors will do what they will do.

[Nix]

johnarryn said:
Ah, well. This is why I hate playing with score graphs on, it becomes a game of "gang-bang the leader."

As a newb and someone who's consistently made bad tactical decisions since the start of the game (despite IMO otherwise solid play) I don't want to criticize your diplomatic acumen, but dealing with variables like that is part of the fun in any multiplayer strategy game. Imagine if central Europe were covered in a magical fog prior to World War II - how would have France and Britain known to declare war on rapidly-expanding Germany?

One *can* consciously make the decision to forego rapid expansion - although I understand you just jumped into the game.

[johnarryn]

I agree with you Nix... I actually deleted the comment you quote before you finished writing your post =) I know being careful about expansion is part of the game, I guess im just venting my frustration about jumping into a game where im getting attacked by everybody =)

No worries, though... im still having fun, which is the point.

[johnarryn]

I actually have had several discussions about the "in-game" justification for graphs... to me they seem silly, in the sense that a bunch of medieval-esque fantasy nations would not have exact and up-to-the-minute data on all the other nations in the world... information would circulate slowly and would take a long time to travel, unless a nation was actively spying or had an established information network... even then, it wouldnt be exact. Id be interested in seeing an option to have score graphs that are much more ambiguous... i think it would add some more intrigue to the game.

[tromper]

Wow, that's a great idea, johnarryn... some sort of spy network that applies a percentage to the accuracy of graphs or something. Could even be implemented on a nation basis, thus easy to slap into the code. But potentially hugely unbalancing. Hey, even another thing to spend pretender points on. *head explosion* Another thing for the devs to perhaps look into.

I'm ambivalent about graphs in games - actually prefer them off. But when they're on, you gotta use 'em. Which, unfortunately, makes it tough for those who are clearly winning.

[seej]

As for the score graphs thing, I prefer graphs to no graphs because I find graphs on more "realistic" and thematically appropriate than graphs off. Those spy networks aren't *really* minute by minute up to date, they are sort of one month behind...

Also, high-speed communication isn't so unrealistic in a fantasy world where resources like gold, magic gems, and magic items are effortlessly teleported across the world.

All in all, I think the options on graphs could be more expansive - something in between what we have now and nothing would be a nice option to have.

[seej]

Turn 18 has been posted, due tomorrow night at midnight. EST

[Jazzepi]

I haven't gotten it in my e-mail yet.

Jazzepi