Aardwark - Finished, Raiel wins!

[Baalz]

No, I don't think even everybody together has a chance, that's my point. If there was another nation about my size we could probably join forces and make a run at it, but to be blunt I really doubt anybody else is going to be much more than a speedbump at this point. R'yleh has a *lot* of castles and a *lot* of income with research and gem income rapidly spooling up and awesomely powerful recruit anywhere mages. It's a pretty tough order to stop 15 starspawn communioned up spamming enslave mind from behind 40 mind blasters and a bunch of chaff - and R'yleh can more or less field an army like that each turn. Not to mention he's got a incredibly intimidating amount of forts down there, it would take an unimaginable amount of time to storm them with whatever troops we could equip with water breathing items, faced with massive mind hunts, vengeance of the dead, etc.

[Jarkko]

We would thus need about 15 earth attacks targeted at same army, each turn I have an itch there may not be 15 E5 mages available, and there might be the slight issue of finding the gems for those 15 earth attacks

[Raiel]

Originally Posted by Baalz

It's obvious to me that there is next to no chance of stopping R'yleh. Unless anybody else thinks they have a snowballs chance in hell I say we call the game for Raiel.

Frankly, I'm really surprised by this... I've only collected about 25% of the gems T'ien Ch'i has earned (plus a few from my random events). I only have a few more forts and provinces than you. My gold income is actually slightly lower than yours. I've seen the indy mages you've collected. And you've done twice as much research as I have...

Now, if I were playing against the AI, I'd feel confident against T'ien Ch'i. Because of that, this is the stage where I lose interest in my SP games. From this point on, the only experience I have to draw on is that which has been shared by others in the forums (which I admit to reading somewhat obsessively). I'm up against Baalz, man... the guy that wrote the guides that have gotten me this far.

From here, I can see that I will likely win my current war with Agartha, and if no one interferes I may even win against T'ien Ch'i. But Jarko is talking about me winning a complete DOGPILE... I can't even see that as a possibility. What am I missing?!?

...

O.K... just read the response that Baalz posted. Forgot about VoTD and I dismissed Mind Hunt because he's got so many strong Astral mages. His estimation of my net income is generous, but not that far off. You guys have a MUCH better idea of how things are likely to play out from here. Is my lead really that significant?

[Raiel]

Originally Posted by Jarkko

We would thus need about 15 earth attacks targeted at same army, each turn I have an itch there may not be 15 E5 mages available, and there might be the slight issue of finding the gems for those 15 earth attacks

Oh, Oh!!! I think I stole some E4/5 mages from Agartha! (edit: E5 with boots, of course)

[Baalz]

Well, here's the more detailed version of my assessment. R'yleh & TC are probably at more or less a stalemate at the moment with neither being able to make big gains offensively against each other. The problem is TC's power has plateaued, while R'yleh's is growing exponentially. TC has no way to grow while R'yleh can attack everybody else on the map. Out of all those castles you're recruiting extremely powerful combat mages and strong troops equally effective on the land or sea. Out of my castles I'm recruiting good research mages with troops that can't do squat underwater. Counting my cap and indie sites I've got 3 good combat mages coming out per turn and no realistic way to bring any real strength to you underwater - it's almost suicide for any troops that try.

As to the mindhunts, I think you underestimate the difficulties for me there. As you say you haven't really played this stage of the game I'll paint you the picture I assumed this would be:

I expensively outfit a few commanders with sea king's goblets, and a few more mages with rings of water breathing and march under water. I make sure to take two different astral mages in case something happens to one of them. I even take S3 mages, which I only have a 25% chance of getting 1 per turn. You've got 3 castles within 1 moves of where I attacked, so while I'm sieging your castle 10 S3-S4 starspawn (a fraction of what's in there researching) attack scripted to magic duel then retreat. If you're unlucky you lose a couple starspawn, I most certainly lose my astral cover. Now, 10 mind hunts drop, killing my commanders holding sea king goblets, and drowning all my troops without a fight. I also saw you snagging Agartha Oracles so in just a little bit once your research catches up earth attacks will also be regularly squishing whatever astral mages I try to bring underwater. Meanwhile you have the luxury of attacking anywhere along my coast, wherever I don't have critical mass. Each fight leaves you stronger as you enslave mind whatever the toughest things I have there are, while mind blasting everything else. Your research grows exponentially as you leverage all those castles and strong mages, so before very long those communions are dropping will of the fates, army of lead & arcane domination (because, you know I was trying to use mindless magic units).

Anyway, I'll keep playing if others think this isn't a foregone conclusion, that's just my take.

[Raiel]

O.K... that's a pretty good case, but I would have figured you to counter that by regularly teleporting in S2+StarshineCap mages, along with sneaking in whatever Astral Specter Mages you could get. Granted, as I acquire territory and start site-searching (I've mainly searched sea provinces thus far), the former becomes a proportionally expensive counter.

Thanks for the insights!

[Aethyr]

Well...at this point I'm just "honoring the pledge".

I have no problem conceeding to R'lyeh.

[Baalz]

Ok, so last call, does anyone not want to declare R'yleh/Raiel the winner?

[statttis]

I was about to launch my underwater invasion a few turns ago but then Pangaea attacked. Now I'm stuck in an ugly war and it doesn't look like I'll be able to help TC with R'lyeh. If Jarkko will agree to a truce I can send my stuff and see what happens. Maybe it will be enough, maybe not.

If not, R'lyeh is the winner.

[chrispedersen]

Sea of Ice?

Astral Corruption?