MP: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI. Game Over. Team ACGHHS wins!

[Gandalf Parker]

*sigh* Jotunhim and Abysia providing front line defense, Pangaea with flying scouts, both Pangaea and Vanheim able to slip full armies thru their frontline guardians. Not to mention standard harassment techniques. As often as I see complaints that the game doesnt do anything to properly support alliances such as safe passage thru allied territory and here is a great chance to do alliances right with Sanguin team.

But I agree that grouping by paths is a problem. Id have gone with things like human & giant, non-humans, water, anything that would have scattered the magic paths abit.

[chrispedersen]

Gandalf,

I do look at team synergies very carefully. For example in this game I took arco, as I consider them to be the premier researcher, with the possible exception of bogarus.

I took Pangeae for a similar team niche.

But that being said, there really is no redeeming values for arbor. There are no capitalizable strengths, except perhaps that ALL their mages suck so bad you might as well take drain 3.

[Septimius Severus]

Nice wagering and input from all concerned. Of course that particular matchup is one of many possible combinations. In the preview of game 2, the full list of recommended/suggested nations (and pretenders) for each team are ordered by native casting ability in Nature (secondarily Earth), Blood, Death, and Astral.

Looking at the nations one does see commonalities and common themes which make grouping teams by them certainly possible and quite interesting. I know I will have fun watching these forces go at each other. A lot of fun! And this fiendish delight will be increased by each team not having the same "toolkit" as it were, to work with. For the Arboreans, all of the following MA nations have native nature mages (not just random picks):

Pangaea, Man, Eriu, Mictlan, Machaka, C'tis, Bandar Log,
Shinuyama, T'ien Chi'.

Arboreans also have a good bless in that the nature and earth blesses are supposedly the most useful.

Also interesting is the common theme that emerges and that is embodied in the team proposed for game 3, Collegium Arcanum. Some nations, such as T'ien Chi', Arco, and Shinuyama are so diverse and versatile in their spell casting ability that they fit the Collegium's rainbow theme quite nicely. Aside from the rainbow pretenders, there are SC pretenders with native casting ability in 3 and sometimes 4 different paths.

There are many possibilities to explore the full worth of each and every nation and many ways to enjoy the game, which is probably what Gandalf was speaking about. Playing blood only games (or other path based games) and role playing is one such way. I'm not an expert on nature magic, but I'd imagine in the hands of those who know how to use it best, it can be quite effective. Even those nature tunes/songs are useful.

Keep in mind that unless I specify exactly which nations are available to each team (pre-set the nations), the team theme can be met by any combination of nation or pretender choice. So there's plenty of flexibility.

Of course one can group by other things (excluding water nations), if someone can come up with 4 common themes that aptly describe them and their associated pretenders, be my guest. Go through all the MA nations and pretenders and tell me what you come up with. How many giant nations are there in MA? What size level = giant, 3, 4, 5, 6? Are there not problems with Hinnom and Ashdod on the same team as it stands? How many "human" nations are there?

Again, it is for fun, and for those who wish to role play a bit. Thanks for all the responses, keep em coming.

[Septimius Severus]

I'm bumping up the current hosting interval from 56 to 64 hours. We will still have our regular poll when we reach turn 50, where you'll have another chance to increase/decrease that 64. I'm doing this in lieu of a poll (consensus is normally required) as it is clear at least some people need more time and in an attempt to forestall more 24 hour delay requests.

Team note: Agema has resumed the captaincy of the Mysterios and responsibility for playing Lanka.

[Squirrelloid]

Look, here's how game 2 is going to play out with those teams: Ashdod and Ermor are going to be the 'front line' of the Set team, deployed both to one side. They're going to choose another team and kill them, all of them, by turn 25 (some minor fort sieges may still apply!). Then they're going to move onto the next team. In the meantime, Shinuyama starts summoning tarts around turn 25 while being fed all the relevant artifacts by C'tis.

They're just going to ignore the AI. Why bother fighting them? It'll distract everyone else while they kill real players. And since the AI will be 'improved', not fighting it will save a lot of team resources.

(in particular, ideal deployment involves Ashdod up front, Shinuyama guarding one flank, Ermor on the other flank, and C'tis protected in the back - attack direction will be towards whichever side Ermor is on. I assume MA C'tis gets recruit-anywhere for its best mage, so it'll be a great research rusher, as is Shinuyama with Bakemono Sorcerors. I'm tempted to say Ermor should run really research light for quite awhile to maximize reanimation, but it will need enough Thaum for gateway to ferry reinforcements to strategic labs. And ideally, they want to hit the astral team first since they'll be the strongest later, and killing them early will remove the threat - possibly just bypassing Rlyeh if it's too annoying to kill, although i imagine hordes of undead might do the trick.)

-------------

The first thing I'd do is ban Ashdod. They are not suitable for MP games, especially not in vanilla.

The second thing I'd do is let teams create their own theme. Everything is justifiable post hoc as a 'theme', and it lets teams choose nations that actually work well together rather than pre-chosen themes that end up with good teams and bad teams.

[Septimius Severus]

Chris and Squirrel and anyone else who may have an issue with the path based teams/themes as proposed, the important thing to remember here is that these teams/themes are what you the players chose! They are the WINNERS!

For those of you who may not know or remember, there were 2 polls conducted on our team forums where I gave players 20 possible options for team groupings and themes. Some included giants, some were based on animal only nations, etc. Players were also encouraged to add any ideas they had.

There were 52 votes received in total. Guess which teams/themes got the most votes?

The Arboreans and the Sanguinarium got 6 votes each.
The Supplicants and Usurpers got 5 votes each.

People voted down most of the non-path based options and no one bothered to put forth any other suggestions.

So my friends, you see, I am simply following through on the will of the players here and implementing their most popular choices.

Teams will still have their ranked lists (which is why I tend to resist pre-set nations) and can meet the theme via nation or pretender choice. So they've got choice and options. You also have your choice of which team to join.

The whole idea is foster a common identity and get people into character and a team mind set. So this therefore is the most important reason why I am doing this the way I am, because you chose it. It'd be nice if players really get into this and have fun with it, instead of playing games that are more of just the same, that follow that ultra competitive, narrow minded, mindset. I want each team to have their own exclusive "toolkit", there own path to victory. But the option is there for teams to tailor things as they see fit, if they don't wish to role play.

As for the AI team, well you ignore the AI team and the advantage their territory can give your team at your own peril. People didn't ignore their importance this game, and I don't think people will do so next game. Their theme and nations, if Gandalf wishes to find one for them, will be chosen as usual from the dregs.

[pyg]

Originally Posted by Septimius Severus

People voted down most of the non-path based options and no one bothered to put forth any other suggestions.

In an attempt to do something constructive with this tangent I would like to suggest that people with strong opinions submit for critique four teams of four [MA] that are balanced and that hopefully have some thematical similarity.

[GrudgeBringer]

Says the guy who won his first battle EVER in this game (puffed out chest)!!!

[Septimius Severus]

Originally Posted by pyg

In an attempt to do something constructive with this tangent I would like to suggest that people with strong opinions submit for critique four teams of four [MA] that are balanced and that hopefully have some thematical similarity.

Ha yes! And do make it thematic and such that a team's strengths are not duplicated by another team. And also while your at it, maybe some appropriately themed pretender suggestions and some appropriately themed nations as backups (in the case of ranked lists), and some graphics/icons I can use to go with them. Do that and we will ignore the player poll and throw out all the other work I've done.

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by Septimius Severus

Chris and Squirrel and anyone else who may have an issue with the path based teams/themes as proposed, the important thing to remember here is that these teams/themes are what you the players chose! They are the WINNERS!

For those of you who may not know or remember, there were 2 polls conducted on our team forums where I gave players 20 possible options for team groupings and themes. Some included giants, some were based on animal only nations, etc. Players were also encouraged to add any ideas they had.

There were 52 votes received in total. Guess which teams/themes got the most votes?

The Arboreans and the Sanguinarium got 6 votes each.
The Supplicants and Usurpers got 5 votes each.

People voted down most of the non-path based options and no one bothered to put forth any other suggestions.

So my friends, you see, I am simply following through on the will of the players here and implementing their most popular choices.

Teams will still have their ranked lists (which is why I tend to resist pre-set nations) and can meet the theme via nation or pretender choice. So they've got choice and options. You also have your choice of which team to join.

The whole idea is foster a common identity and get people into character and a team mind set. So this therefore is the most important reason why I am doing this the way I am, because you chose it. It'd be nice if players really get into this and have fun with it, instead of playing games that are more of just the same, that follow that ultra competitive, narrow minded, mindset. I want each team to have their own exclusive "toolkit", there own path to victory. But the option is there for teams to tailor things as they see fit, if they don't wish to role play.

As for the AI team, well you ignore the AI team and the advantage their territory can give your team at your own peril. People didn't ignore their importance this game, and I don't think people will do so next game. Their theme and nations, if Gandalf wishes to find one for them, will be chosen as usual from the dregs.

I don't recall voting for nations. I recall voting for names.
(ie, sanguinarium which is what I voted for). I think the problem is not the name, but rather the implimentation.

I am still not opposed to the idea of using the teams as you outlined them. (with the exception of ashdod, which I think is simply to broke to live in MP-teams). However, I think you will need some method to handicap.

Suggestions: vast amounts of forest... Ie.. 80%? Extra forts for the arborealists... a Point bid system - where high bidders choose the team - and then lose the number of points bid from pretender construction.

For example, as constitued I would EASILY bid 120 points to play the ashdod team.