MRAPs

[scJazz]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

I'm afraid the S. Africans for instance would have a hard time with this argument, the CASSPIR Series and the models that proceeded them have a high center of gravity as much for mine protection as the terrain they operate in. With independent four wheel drive and the special suspension units installed, they'll eat a 2WD vehicle for breakfast, lunch and dinner and flush the bolts down the pooper later. Remember a 2x4 is your car in most cases and I don't think you would take it off road except in emergency would you? Granted my car on the paved road would leave a vehicle like the recently discussed HUSKY in the rear view but I have no illusions who would win off the pavement. And you have to bear in mind the power under the hood of these vehicles again the HUSKY has a road speed of 70mph/110km(?). Go to You Tube and watch the videos of the COUGER running at the Aberdeen Proving Grounds then get back to me. What kills me in these discussions are that people forget what these terms sometimes means (Present company excluded.) 2WD=2 wheels driving the rest, while 4x4/or AWD are all the wheels driving. In summary... some of these vehicles are 2WD with "on the fly" AWD options or are full time AWD. Pay attention to the "MOBILITY" and "MANUVERABILITY" sections as you browse the vehicles of your choice. I don't know of many 2WD vehicles that can handle a ~60% gradient or ~40% side slope, that's what an MRAP and TRACKED vehicle will do for you with added protection for your troops and weapons for protection even better then a "soft target" AWD truck. And here's my disclaimer I've used them for "specialized" purposes only, I rather prefer the IFV or APC. With the second ref the MRAPs are at the bottom of the section and I see they've done some updating since I last looked in as well.
http://www.military-today.com/trucks.htm
http://www.military-today.com/apc.htm

Thank you for the opportunity to get off my last unmentionable numbered post it was "creeping" us out before we headed home!?!

Regards,
Pat

Fair enough Pat. I was just tossing the idea out there. Your argument against nerfing them is reasonable.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

This is more for FYI then anything else. First I will have inputs here for the 2014/2015 Campaign, as you can see things have been quiet here, but this is mostly due to priorities in other areas vs. development in this one. So there'll be a couple of old items that were put off and new equipment introduced. I think currently I'm holding data for about 6-8 new items here. AND NOT FOR THE U.S. & UK etc. they have enough MRAPs in the OOBs I think.
Now for the real purpose of this post... Rarely do we get a chance to see equipment on TV in use, however tonight on BBC America Top Gear @ 7:30pm EST look for Richard visits Lake Como, James travels to Afghanistan, Jeremy goes to Bruges, Belium. They used to title the episodes not this year I guess, anyway James will drive the FOXHOUND and travel in the MASTIFF (Which I probaly forgot has TI for the driver and commander.) anyway very interesting I thought.
Stick around for Jeremy if you want to know me better.

From the show on a memorial to the UK dead BEFORE they got this equipment (And the number of lives saved is impressive compared to the pre MRAP days.)...
"WHEN YOU GO HOME TELL THEM OF US AND SAY, FOR YOUR TOMMORROW WE GAVE OUR TODAY.
Sometimes they just leave us too soon.

Regards,
Pat

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by gila

Call me crazy,but i'm thinking MRAP's are not going to improve any more than are currently,after all they are just big expensive IED resistant trucks,and nothing else special.

I have to agree wholeheartedly, they definitely should be 2WD.
They're designed and intended to protect troops patrolling roads and streets NOT as a replacement for APCs/IFVs.
Of course there may be exceptions (such as the CASSPIR).

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

So they have roads in Afghanistan!?! I'll try my quoted post before my last this way and mind you I'm a "Yankee" who's been in the South long enough to know if you want the respect of the folks around here and you by a 2x4 pickup you'll be looked (And called.) upon as being "stupider than a dxxx yankee" a person who buys the 4x4 will of course be...come on now...that's right "smarter than a dxxx yankee" I personally prefer the latter to the former!?! When "mud bogging" it's about who can get through the mud the fastest and throw the most mud around on their trucks, themselves and anyone around. They are the latter from above. Those that get stuck are the former from above subject to the riducule of the "latter", trapsing around in the mud swearing, getting wet and mudding without all the fun and worse of all watching the "latter" laughing and drinking all the beer trying to decide whether or not someone should pull the "former" out of the mud. How does this sad story end? Not to worry the 4x4 "latter" guys will pull out the 2x4 "former" guy at the cost of his beer and probaly his girlfriend if stuck as well. They don't like being embarrassed after when she probaly told him to buy the 4x4 in the first place.
Yes that's right we where talking about the MRAP. Well the UK still used them like the "Desert Rats" of old and we used them like the "Rat Patrol" of old (And the TV show too.). They generally are better protected and have a longer range then their tracked cousins. So yes they are the "former".

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

So they have roads in Afghanistan!?! I'll try my quoted post before my last this way and mind you I'm a "Yankee" who's been in the South long enough to know if you want the respect of the folks around here and you by a 2x4 pickup you'll be looked (And called.) upon as being "stupider than a dxxx yankee" a person who buys the 4x4 will of course be...come on now...that's right "smarter than a dxxx yankee" I personally prefer the latter to the former!?! When "mud bogging" it's about who can get through the mud the fastest and throw the most mud around on their trucks, themselves and anyone around. They are the "latter" from above. Those that get stuck are the "former" from above subject to the riducule of the "latter", trapsing around in the mud swearing, getting wet and muddy without all the fun and worse of all watching the "latter" laughing and drinking all the beer trying to decide whether or not someone should pull the "former" out of the mud. How does this sad story end? Not to worry the 4x4 "latter" guys will pull out the 2x4 "former" guy at the cost of his beer and probaly his girlfriend if stuck as well. They don't like being embarrassed after when she probaly told him to buy the 4x4 in the first place.
Yes that's right we where talking about the MRAP. Well the UK still used them like the "Desert Rats" of old and we used them like the "Rat Patrol" of old (And the TV show too.). They generally are better protected and have a longer range then their tracked cousins. So yes they are the "former".
I couldn't resist...Pics!!



Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well obviously I screwed that last post up. Funny was talking to someone about how this year has been rough again for two in a row now and it showed in the last post-and it was a half way decent ana...story. Point being "latter" and "former aside, the
4x4 is better then the 2x4 as generally the MRAP will hold up better then a tracked vehicle in the enviroment of a country like Afganistan or Africa in general besides tanks you don't see many tracked APC or IFV types in the armies there. SANDF is a prime example of this.
http://www.army.mil.za/equipment/vehicles/index.htm
http://www.army.mil.za/equipment/wea...mour/index.htm

Thank goodness Spring Training is just around the corner!?!

Regards,
Pat

[Suhiir]

Of course they have roads in Afghanistan, mostly dirt/gravel but roads never-the-less.

Folks seem to assume because MRAPs can be used as "Rat Patrols" or APCs in places like Iraq/Afghanistan (at least when not in the more rugged areas) they'll work just as well in say Europe, Korea, or Vietnam. Try it and see how far you get off-road.

Side Note:
My primary vehicle during Gulf I was a M890 (4×2-wheel drive version of the M880), I had the driver stay in 2WD all the time, only using 4WD when we got stuck (only happened a couple times) because this encouraged the young L/Cpl NOT to assume he could drive anywhere he wanted.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well the on again, off again, on again, off again oh yeah on again USA/USMC Joint JTLV Program is I think still moving forward with a couple of issues first the USMC kinda doesn't want it and it doesn't fit both literally and figuratively into the USMC scheme of things. Well you judge for yourselves, personally I'm starting to think the Indian MOD (See the most recent Jet Thread post.) is involved somehow in this.
http://www.janes.com/article/48188/p...ult-operations

But the other reason we're here is because that is assuming there is a Patch for next year I'll have a handful of items in this category, but as you'll note with this offering we're dealing with a hybrid type of MRAP that's come about in the last 2-3 years were the emphasis has been placed on increased APC protection levels along with tradition MRAP mine protection standards again as noted below.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/janua..._vehicles.html

Regards,
Pat

[Suhiir]

That's really no surprise.
JLTV's and MRAP's are very nice for what they're designed for. Protecting passengers during road convoy maneuvers. As general use or cross-county vehicles they're less then ideal.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well I've been tracking this for 6yrs and 4 days (See page 3, Post 29 from Oct. 01, 2009.) and Australia has finally decided to make the purchase of the HAWKEI to replace most of their Land Rover fleet. When first posted it looked like they would have them by mid to late 2013. It was already "down selected" in I believe 2011 from it's competitors, which included the M-ATV from OSH KOSH among others. It's pretty safe to say it's probably one of the most tested vehicles in it's class as the delays really didn't stem developmental issues as much as political delays due to change of governments and mostly from economic delays. This is a very capable, very fast all terrain mini-MRAP if you will that got it's genes from the BUSHMASTER.

Sometimes you just have to stay with it to get it right. I'll be submitting only the 6 passenger version (4 door.) as the 3 passenger (2 door.) wouldn't add any value to the Australian OOB.
http://www.janes.com/article/55007/a...awkei-4x4-deal



Regards,
Pat