OT: Starcraft II and Elemental

[rdonj]

Originally Posted by onomastikon

In all fairness, while "their" website does indeed contain a large number of rampant, vociferous fanboys, "it's" not terribly different from most game websites throughout the world. Sometimes I also "wonder" about the degree of harshness with which those who offer constructive criticism of Dominions are treated here on this website.

What's true is that Brad -- not unlike Johan et al. -- feels that he will and can end up doing his thing, no matter what, and that gives him a certain degree of immunity to criticism. Like Johan et al., Brad has a "real life" in a slightly different context, albeit one that is not quite so different than that a game developer as a schoolteacher is (he runs a software company which also happens to have a small gaming branch); while he has resources and gets paid for Elemental, his bread and butter is elsewhere (various Windows applications), allowing him to create a niche product, if he so wishes. For reasons much like these, the creators of Dominions 3 are also able to say, with a certain degree of reassurance, that if someone doesn't like what they are doing, then they might as well stay away. Unlike the creators of Dom3, however, whose main target group consist of people posting here (in other words, a small, vociferous, fiercly loyal (it seems to me sometimes to the point of being blind), frequently rampant fanbase) -- in other words, the nerds here like you and me --, the creators of Elemental simultaneously wish to be mainstream and reach a much larger target group. I think that is greatly inconsistent and self-contradictory, and I am currently writing a useless, somewhat acerbic post full of well-formulated rantings on their website, mostly because I still suffer from the common delusion that things people write on sites like these will be viewed with patience and goodwill and may even change things in the world. Look for my post there soon. Ah excuse me sidetracked.

I too was a member of the beta "team", and Megablob is more correct than he knows. What he doesn't know: We never actually tested the game. Never. We tested parts of it, but what you can purchase now was never played by a human being outside the laboratories of Stardock, and by them only minimally (by their own admission), before reaching your shelves. You read it here first. Ah excuse me again.

Wow, why are we coming down so hard on "meglobob's" spelling/grammar? I mean, I've been a bit of a spelling nazi myself, but this forum gets visitors from many countries around the world, and that means we have a lot of players here who don't speak english as a first language (which I'm pretty sure includes meglobob). Of all forums to attack someone's use of the english language, this one really isn't terribly high on the list. It doesn't add anything to the conversation and is kind of rude. I would kindly ask you not to do that again on these forums, please.

And otherwise, I completely agree with Wraithlord's sentiments. Are we reading the same forums here? The ones in which there are only a very few people that stand completely behind the devs in all things (seriously, other than gandalf, does anyone fit this mold? And he's at least quite open in admitting it)? The one in which, on patch days, we are likely to see more people complaining about the lack of cave darkness than we are people who thank illwinter for the extra work they've put in to make the game just that little bit better, years after getting it out on the market? The one where the vast and overwhelming majority of games are played using a mod that makes significant changes to the game due to perceived balance concerns that they devs don't really see as a problem for them?

You baffle me.

[Meglobob]

Spelling

Ha ha, yes it was very sloppy and I am embarrassed to be called a Englishman, which I am...

[onomastikon]

Sorry, I did not mean to come down on Megablob's spelling like that. I have been having a bad day, little things were and are being blown way out of proportion, and I did not take my medicine. Sorry.
(I do, however, continue to feel differently about the nature of loyalty and criticism on these boards than you do. I see about equal levels of vociferousness and constructive criticism here as on the elemental forum.)

[HoneyBadger]

I think most if not all of the longtime Forumgoers would be more than willing to buy Kristoffer and Johan a beer, or several, to go with a pat on the back and a "bloody good show".

I certainly would.

Infact, if I had the ways and means to drop everything and off to Sweden, I'd make the beer myself (it's not that hard, but I don't even have time for that, lately...).

I've found the medium (an internet Forum) to be far more lacking than the sentiment.

Also, the audience that Dom3 is directed towards is a small, rarified faction. It's a game made for gamers who have been either ignored or burned (thanks Stardock!) for over a decade. Considering that we're not just gamers, not just fantasy gamers, not just turn-based fantasy gamers, we're some kind of...specialized retro breed of turn-based fantasy gamer/roguelike degenerate bastard hybrids(?)...well, how fine of social graces can you expect from us, afterall? I'm the only one here that I even know is married, and I suspect my miracle of a wife was as relieved to chance upon someone who shared her interests, as I was to find her.

I'm forever immensely grateful to Illwinter for keeping this dream alive, but they've taken a heavy burden upon their shoulders by practically being the only bearers of this particular torch.

Do we crave more and better? Ofcourse we do. Do we expect more and better from Kristoffer and Johan? Frankly, I don't think anyone expected Dom3. It's a whale of a game, but it's swimming in an empty sea, and I don't think very many people know quite how to act when it also turns out to be a magical fish that grants wishes.

How does one even deal with that, let alone thank it properly?

[WraithLord]

+1

with small correction -
Plenty of married guys here (me included), see the thread that goes something along the lines of "mouse clicks when playing dom makes my girlfriend/wife/mother in low, angry/sleep deprived/lock me in basement"

[onomastikon]

You say that well and nicely, Honeybadger.
I realize that this is about as niche as you can get, I'm not good in formulating stuff succinctly. I suppose I was overwhelmed a few times here by what I (mistakenly?) took to be long-standing forum-goes with much clout beating me on the head for saying something wrong, and since then (I believe that was 2004, when I joined for playing Dominions 2) I have mostly been a lurker.

And now, I bet there will soon, possibly right here, be quite a number of people who are going to give us information on their marital status. I'll start us off: I've been married for ten years (August 2000), and the wife detests computer games of all sorts. Otherwise, we have what appears to be a wonderful time and wonderful kids.

In related news, Brad Wardell posted from his holiday house that he loves Elemental and will be sure to address all the bad stuff very soon.

[HoneyBadger]

Originally Posted by WraithLord

+1

with small correction -
Plenty of married guys here (me included), see the thread that goes something along the lines of "mouse clicks when playing dom makes my girlfriend/wife/mother in low, angry/sleep deprived/lock me in basement"

Oh, not mine. My wife (who I should mention, spends considerably more time actually playing games on her computer, than I do on mine,) finds this all to be adorable.

I've actually been encouraged to play more, provided I still give her an acceptable amount of attention, and keep the house from falling apart.

My mother in law, on the other hand, is a very avid collector of Harry Potter merchandise, and has owned atleast 3 computers since I've known her, so I'm not getting a lot of grief from that quarter, either.

[Baalz]

Originally Posted by WraithLord

+1

with small correction -
Plenty of married guys here (me included), see the thread that goes something along the lines of "mouse clicks when playing dom makes my girlfriend/wife/mother in low, angry/sleep deprived/lock me in basement"

Mouseclicks? I learned long ago to turn the sound off if there was any chance of elephants or starspawn being in a battle in order to preserve marital bliss...

[WraithLord]

Thanks for sharing Brad's post.
I liked what I read. I think that it would be,if SD would stand by it, a major step in the right direction.

However, releasing the game in such a sorry state shouldn't have happened. SD basically punishes it's most dedicated fans, while those sitting on the fence will:
a- probably buy the game cheaper (least important) and
b- not do paid beta testing, or put it other way, be frustrated with bugs, crashes and inconsistencies. And
c- will buy the game with much more content

The way the game would be in this 1.1 version Brad mentioned is how it should have been released.

Oh, and my wife too hates vidoe gaming in general and dominions specifically. It's the one game she hates most. ( The one game to rule them all ) - I wonder why?

[WraithLord]

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

Oh, not mine. My wife (who I should mention, spends considerably more time actually playing games on her computer, than I do on mine,) finds this all to be adorable.

I've actually been encouraged to play more, provided I still give her an acceptable amount of attention, and keep the house from falling apart.

My mother in law, on the other hand, is a very avid collector of Harry Potter merchandise, and has owned atleast 3 computers since I've known her, so I'm not getting a lot of grief from that quarter, either.

You lucky lucky man

At my house dominions is like, I'd say, a pet that only I like. For my wife it's no better than a flea infested, bad smelling mongreal and she probably wouldn't mind giving it the occasional kick or downright kick it out of the house