OT: US Pres election

[Bwaha]

What ticks me off is the constant lies that are taught in our schools. For instance tail gunner Joe McCarthy is portrayed as a villain, I've had arguments with my buddy's and they claim he was a member of HUAC. Not so my friends, he was a senator. Also his claims of soviet infiltration of the state dept. are a matter of historical fact. If you don't believe me check into the Verona decrypts. Now I'm not red baiter, but I read a fascinating but very dry book. I will get the title to you later, but it is the memoirs of a GRU general. Lastly my late friend Ted was a devout Maoist. We argued constantly but loved each other regardless of our political positions.

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by Atrocities

I just want to see someone elected to office who really cares about the people first and foremost. Someone who won't erode our constitutional rights, anger our allies, lie to us, or rather pass a lie to us. A leader who, like Harry Truman, Teddy Roosevelt, or JFK, has character and takes the heat when it gets hot and comes out on top putting the nation and our way of life first. It doesn't matter to me if the person is rep dem or indy, a man or a women, or what race they are. I just want what we had before it was taken from us before its completely gone for good. My last blog kinda spells out how I feel.

PS, Jim, I am not trying to push any ones buttons. I played it a bit hot in my last post, a bit of tit for tat so to speak, but really all I originally intended was to state my point of view and explain my motives for my opinions. If that got under your skin and pushed your buttons, it wasn't my intention.

Thank you. I also apologize if my criticism of Palin as a political figure was harsh. If I had to put my finger on my problem with her (beyond the fact that she doesn't seem intelligent or informed at all), it's her religion. Not her specific religion - I would just like to see someone in our highest office that doesn't put their god, or conception of god first. I want someone who is not a Christian, or a Jew, or a Muslim, or a Buddhist, as both our President, and VP. I want them to put their country first - not their faith.

[Agema]

The US is supposed to be a free democracy: that means people should have freedom of views, and the free speech to express those views.

That Communists were trying to infiltrate the USA is irrelevant. The fact is that many of McCarthy's victims had done nothing wrong, he had no adequate evidence they'd done anything wrong, yet he ruined their lives, many even had to leave the USA. He did so because they had merely the barest of links to left-wing thought. He was a vicious bully; he was thought police; he was a force of oppression. That's why he is a villain, and even he caught as much as a whole spy ring he'd still be a villain.

[Bwaha]

Dear Agema, it was a group of house members that did this. Huac was a over-reaction. McCarthy was not a part of it. Historical fact. That you were taught this is exactly what I object to. Its not your fault that you've been taught untruths. I blame the teachers. Not all teachers indoctrinate their students, but rather teach them to think. These I approve of.

[Agema]

I wasn't taught McCarthy was part of HUAC.

He was a public face of anti-Communist hysteria, and I don't doubt he had indirect influence on them. He was chairman of committees which investigated public officials and devastated them without evidence, and carried out all sorts of horrors against free society, like banning books.

Frankly, it's abhorrent he should be rehabilitated. Particularly by the sorts of authors who normally rage about historical revisionism when it stands up for the left wing. But some people don't let hypocrisy get in the way.

It's a disgrace that people like Ann Coulter talk about liberals as "traitors". There can be nothing more narrow-minded, intolerant and socially divisive than to suggest people with differing political views are betraying the state. That is support for authoritarian rule, virtually indistinguishable from the sorts of things the Nazi and Soviet regimes did.

If that is what is acceptable policy for Republicans, then the party should be damned worldwide as a hotbed of fascism and unfit to exert any power in the free world. Thankfully though, I believe most Republicans find it as horrific and unacceptable as most of the rest of us.

[capnq]

Originally Posted by Atrocities

Compare the two, Obama a three year senator who has spent the last year running for office compared to Palin, a women who has managed a large family, her own business, was a mayor and is now Governor of one of our largest energy producing states; Alaska.

This kind of distorted, lop-sided "comparison" is one of the reasons I hate political arguments.

It's not fair look at Palin's entire life for qualifications, but only look at Obama's past three years.

[Agema]

Originally Posted by Atrocities

Speaking of change, when Obama speaks about change, he does so as if he owns the word without having any real understanding of what change really means... His phrase, "change" along with his tactics are text book Che Guevara communism. So what does real change really mean when it comes from Senator Obama if his inspiration and indeed his entire campaign effort was rooted from socialism.

Che Guevara's tactics were those of armed revolution. Have you any hard evidence that Obama is planning to arm the common workers to militarily overthrow the bourgeoisie and exploitative ruling classes?

Please also bear in mind that the US mainstream left-wing Democrats are more right-wing than your average Western European mainstream right-wing, such as the British Conservative party or the French UMP. Positioning the Democrats as "socialist" or "communist" denies such statements of credibility, as Western Europe is clearly not in the grip of Marxism.

[lch]

Originally Posted by Agema

Please also bear in mind that the US mainstream left-wing Democrats are more right-wing than your average Western European mainstream right-wing, such as the British Conservative party or the French UMP.

True.

Originally Posted by Agema

Positioning the Democrats as "socialist" or "communist" denies such statements of credibility, as Western Europe is clearly not in the grip of Marxism.

And if it would be, would that necessarily be that bad a thing?
I keed, I keed...

[Azselendor]

Current debate tactics in america consist of setting up straw men and knocking them down. There are so many logical fallacies in the political discussion, america should be ashamed of itself.

Take this Rev. Wright issue. Yes, he said evil things about about america. Things I consider treason. But on the other side, how many fundamentalist neo cons are calling for the deaths of athiest americans or the expulsion of everyone non-white. Hell, Pat Robertson even called for nuclear strikes on Washington DC a few years back.

See my point.

if not, how about this

"...and the pot called the kettle black..."


The point is, US politics have devolved into a 3rd grade playground pissing contest.

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by Azselendor

...The point is, US politics have devolved into a 3rd grade playground pissing contest.

Because the people who own our economy find it easier to conduct their business, when the populace are deluded into petting infighting and irrational anger.

Oh and I finally watched the VP debate last night, what a show. I'm amused by Palin's overuse of her cute little "heckuvalot", I wonder how many people are voting the McCain ticket because of her personality. What was the term? Down to earth? I guess that is neo-con speak for "un-intellectual". We all know the intellectuals will ruin the earth - what with their heretical scientific beliefs and all.