MP: MA CBM Game Greenstone Bandar Log Victor

[ghoul31]

Yes we were losing ground. But if Abyssia joined in, we might have been able to turn things around.

And you haven't won anything.All you did is quit the game and ruin it for everyone. That makes you a loser, not a winner. Half the games I'm in have been ruined by people quitting in he middle of the game.

It takes a lot of nerve to ruin the game, then come here and brag about how great you are.

Originally Posted by ghoul31

I think we should declare Bandar Log the winner in this game

I didn't say I was great, I never said that it was 100% guaranteed that I would win. I'm just saying that it was very likely to be either me or Mictlan, and good luck finding a game where people play to the last province for complete world domination. I'm not bragging, but I won't let someone sit there and tell me that all of my hard work and strategizing didn't matter because it was "luck" or an "alliance" that won me the game.


The "MIDDLE" of the game? Are you serious? This is the "end" of the game my friend.

If you remember ghoul, I was quite happy to concede the game to Mictlan, or if he didn't think he could win, someone else, so don't go calling me names. Anyway, I made it clear that the term winner, or loser really means nothing to me, I had fun.

Gosh, I was so pleased with how polite, gracious and sporting everyone had been until now. More so than victory it felt good that we could all agree that we played hard and fought well. I'm sorry that I couldn't play on forever in a never-ending multi-front war, and if you really think I've ruined the game, I'm sorry you feel that way.

Go ahead and take a look at how most games with this setup end.

[welltimat]

Originally Posted by Grijalva

Please don't try to steal my thunder by saying that this "alliance" was what brought me victory. The "alliance" was really just two NAP3s and one (yes one) joint war waged by me and Machacka. If the "alliance" was so important, then how come Machacka and Ctis couldn't benefit like I did?

Besides, trying to trivialize why I was successful (luck, placement etc) is immature and won't change the facts as they stand.

Dear Grijalva. I am not trying to trivialize. The current position is your skill by more than a half. However, the rest of the player are not helpless stupid noobs as well. The factors that i mentioned are quite important. Its kind of obvious. Given another map positions there could be completely different results.

My initial reply was actually to Ermor player, who said that there could not be so great leader and skilled player who could continue playing Bandar Log instead of you without drop in effectiveness. He was wrong. There could be.

Notice, i agree that your current position is the best (and that you have got to it using excellent strategies and skills).

BUT. I do not agree that you have won this game. Period. And i don't really care what others think about it. You control 25% of the land and even less percentage in other areas. That is obviously not enough to claim a victory. You can declare yourself winner, that would be only your problem as you could also declare yourself winner on turn 1.

Originally Posted by Grijalva

I know how you feel though, its endgame and you're just started to wage your successful little war, thinking "OMG, I'm doing so well in this war, it can't be over!" Well, it is, and it wouldn't be fun for you if you tried to take on Mictlan.

Dear Grijalva. Thank you for telling me how i am thinking. I do not overestimate my position. I am at best #4. For almost entire game my position was so low that i played stricly for fun. And yes, i had fun and gained a lot from this game. For me, this game was hilarious.

Originally Posted by Grijalva

I, for example, could have dropped Rudras-scs all over your turf and then had them merrily fly around raiding, whilst summoning new ones each turn. When you see the mechanics of it, you realize that is would just be a perpetual war of attrition. One that Abysia, even in late game, lacks the mobility for.

Yes, you can do this. My chances against you 1 vs 1 are low. However, that will help other nations to throw down your tyranny faster.

Originally Posted by Grijalva

Remember too, that I had already been at war with Mictlan, Ryleh and Ashdod (three game leaders) for many turns and had steadily gained income, provinces and gems during that period. Although they all gave me a really hard time

I remember that. You are very tough opponent.

Originally Posted by Grijalva

Im going to go ahead and say that this ship has sailed. I do appreciate everyones' good sportsmanship in agreeing on that though, as its not always easy.

As i already mentioned above, you can say whatever you want.

Thanks for clearing that up welltimat, you are indeed entitled to your position. But I never declared myself winner at all, it was the majority opinion as I read it. And yes, I do think that being game leader by far in every respect (in the endgame) is a good reason to claim victory, but, again, I only accepted that position...never claimed it.

This whole endeavor has left a sour taste in my mouth. I don't care who is declared winner and never did. Of course I tried to win and was happy to accept that position when people thought it was right.

Welltimat, if you felt so strongly about this, why didn't you say something two turns ago? You waited until I had another stale or two and started complaining?

I propose to just put it to a vote: if you want find a sub after four stales in a row for Bandar and continue playing, say so. Or whatever; the game's a draw, Mictlan's the winner, I'm the winner, Abysias the winner, etc..vote for whatever you each think is the right outcome for this game...I'll abstain.

[Graeme Dice]

Well, if we are going to keep playing, then I`m going to declare peace with Bandar Log, and start attacking Abysia. Grijalva has been a much more effective diplomat than Welltimat

[Hoplosternum]

Originally Posted by Graeme Dice

Well, if we are going to keep playing, then I`m going to declare peace with Bandar Log, and start attacking Abysia. Grijalva has been a much more effective diplomat than Welltimat

Me too And I propose a three way pact to knock some sense into the players who want to continue

Look I do understand what Welltimat is saying. But I don't think every game has to be dragged out every time. It will take scores of hours for each one of the main players to carry this on in a war of attrition with Bandar. Which may not succeed and even if it does only proves that huge numbers (in gems/armies/mages/provinces) can overwhelm good play. Hmmm.

I don't think anyone is saying Bandar is unbeatable at this point. Just that the only likely single winner is Bandar within the next dozen or so turns. But we may have prevailed, especially if you and Vanheim help. Then the game would last many many turns beating him. Then dozens more as the victors would then have to fight each other. That is a huge investment.

And we are likely to get a less worthy winner at the end. Bandar has played a good game and there is no shame in losing to an alliance of all other main powers attacking him at once. No one else will be able to say the same. Simply that they played a part and got lucky or simply out lasted the rest.

I wish there was a different way to determine victory that people agreed on. Does everygame has to be played to the bitter bitter end as Welltimat seems to suggest here? Then it becomes a war of attrition both in game and with Dom 3 fatigue in real life. I especially don't like permanent subs in such situations. At least then when someone leaves they (and their power) should go

[welltimat]

Thats an interesting way of stopping the game. Alliance of players who dont want to play vs rest.

I guess if 3 top players don't want to continue you cant force them to. Now you can kiss each other and babble how great and unbeatable you were.

Next time should just do it at turn 2. Less time wasted.

[Graeme Dice]

Diplomacy is the key to winning large dominions games. If your idea of diplomacy is to insult the leading players to the point where they get fed up with you and decide to play kingmaker for somebody else, then you're not going to win many games.

[welltimat]

Considering you already quit the game and 'nominated' 'the winner' thats not a 'game diplomacy'. I don't quite understand where you've seen insults coming from me.

Basically, you don't want to play, and i can not do anything about it. But from my PoV that situation looks like "oh, i am powerful and unbeatable, and you are powerful and unbeatable, we won the game". whatever.

[welltimat]

To Hoplosternum:
I have never proposed to fight "to the bitter end". Establishing 100% world control would take too long - it can be decided way earlier. Lets say 50 or even 40 percent of the world control would be sufficient, usually after this everyone agrees. There could be other things going in the world except for the war with Bandar Log. After all there were still 7 players, with their own plans and strategies. Thats what annoys me most.