questions about devnull mod - Page 2

Rollo · #11 July 28th, 2003, 12:53 AM

1) Like others have said before. I think Devnull Mod is a good one to learn as you play. The main change is that PDC does also sweep mines. But PDC can only target seekers. If you want PD against units also, you need Anti-fighter missiles (research Point-defense and also fighters tech for higher levels).

2) about the AI: TDM AI will not work correctly in Devnull Mod. The Vikings AI for Devnull as well as all the other AI have been adopted specificly for the mod. And don't use stock AI either. Just use the AI that comes with the mod.

Rollo

Pax · #12 July 28th, 2003, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Silent Sorrow:
Sigh.

I suppose I could do that.

But I think when you have a mod that is this wide-ranging it's just professional to include the equivalent of a manual.

And when you start paying $10US to the authors of the mod (each and every one; DevNull has changedhands more than once), maybe they will oblige you. Maybe. But I wouldn't hold my breath, were I you.

...

Look, no offense, but ... it's free; don't you think you're being just a BIT ungrateful, here? A mod is a LOT of work in and of itself (as I have discovered the hard way with the STILL-unfinished "Exodus" mod), if you do more than tweak a few minor things here and there. Try it sometime, you'll see what I mean.

Quote:

There are several reasons why this just makes good sense but for me one is I have a busy life and don't really have the time or the inclination to wade through everything first-hand, searching through this, that and the other thing, staging mock games to figure it out by trial and error, and asking question after question on the forums. The game is already complex enough as it is and I don't think this sort of thing helps attract more players.

And the authors of mods have lives, too. It already takes a lot of work to craft a new mod out of whole cloth (easily into the hundreds of man-hours for th really big ones).

Silent Sorrow · #13 July 28th, 2003, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taera:
the deal is, there is a little too many changes there in DevNull to list them all - but on the other hand they're not drastic enough to make it difficult to play. Actually, you can play DNM on PBW and learn in progress. I did that.

See the irony? You say "a little too many changes ... to list them all." That, of course, is the VERY REASON why the mod should also include some sort of explanation of its features.

If it was a mod where superficial and/or few changes had been made, sure, of course there may not be a need for a readme (I'll say "readme" because some people are getting stuck on "manual" and I don't mean a literal manual).

But some of you have got it the wrong way around and appear to be saying that the more changes there are, the less need there is for explanation. And that just doesn't make any sense to me.

As for PBW, I don't have any sort of time to try anything like that so that's not an option for me. I might play a lot for a week or two and then not play again for three months.

Fyron · #14 July 28th, 2003, 01:47 AM

There is a world of difference between a manual and a readme. The terms are certainly not interchangeable. A manual is an in-depth analysis of everything in the mod. A readme often includes a superficial overview of the mod.

Quote:

But some of you have got it the wrong way around and appear to be saying that the more changes there are, the less need there is for explanation.

Such as who?

[ July 28, 2003, 00:47: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Silent Sorrow · #15 July 28th, 2003, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pax:
And when you start paying $10US to the authors of the mod (each and every one; DevNull has changedhands more than once), maybe they will oblige you. Maybe. But I wouldn't hold my breath, were I you.

...

Look, no offense, but ... it's free; don't you think you're being just a BIT ungrateful, here? A mod is a LOT of work in and of itself (as I have discovered the hard way with the STILL-unfinished "Exodus" mod), if you do more than tweak a few minor things here and there. Try it sometime, you'll see what I mean.

I think you're really misunderstanding me. This has got absolutely nothing to do with being grateful or ungrateful, free or not free. I didn't know what the mod did (until I found binford's write-up) so an explanation seems natural. Presumably, the people who made the mod had to consider what changes they were making, why they were making them, what the balances would be, what the new equipment would be, and so on, and in the course of that would have written something down. Whatever that was that they wrote down would have been fine if included in the mod (again, Binford did it and that's great)--you know, "we added x, y, z and they do a, b, c," that's all. If you're going to go to the trouble of modding, why not ensure everyone knows what the mod is/does?

An analogy would be if one technologically advanced society built a nuclear reactor (or a toaster) for a less advanced society but gave the latter no clue as to what it was or how to operate it properly ("What does this red button do?" "Oh, just fiddle around with it until you figure it out."). Then the advanced society says to the other, "You should just be grateful we gave you this incredibly powerful way to make lots of energy. Never mind training your engineers."

Quote:

And the authors of mods have lives, too. It already takes a lot of work to craft a new mod out of whole cloth (easily into the hundreds of man-hours for th really big ones).

Hmm, so you spend "hundreds of man-hours" creating these mods but leave out the instructions at the end? (Ironically, the part that would take the least amount of time to do.)

Silent Sorrow · #16 July 28th, 2003, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
There is a world of difference between a manual and a readme. The terms are certainly not interchangeable. A manual is an in-depth analysis of everything in the mod. A readme often includes a superficial overview of the mod.

Right--a readme would do. Just like binford provided. The term escaped me at first so I stuck in the word manual. But obviously, there's no need for a manual with a game that already shipped with a manual.

Quote:

Such as who?

Such as taera.

Rollo · #17 July 28th, 2003, 01:56 AM

I think Binfords site http://jeffleggett.com/devnull.html gives a very good summary of the differences betweeen stock SE4 and Devnull Mod and can be considered a manual.
Good job, Binford.

Rollo

[ July 28, 2003, 00:57: Message edited by: Rollo ]

Fyron · #18 July 28th, 2003, 02:03 AM

Taera said that there are a lot of minor changes that do not require much extra learning (if any). He did not say that having more changes means there is less need of an explanation.

Mods do require readmes, yes.

Silent Sorrow · #19 July 28th, 2003, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Taera said that there are a lot of minor changes that do not require much extra learning (if any). He did not say that having more changes means there is less need of an explanation.

He did not say that. He said, and I quote, verbatim from his post, "the deal is, there is a little too many changes there in DevNull to list them all ..."

Clearly, he's suggesting that there are so many changes that it's maybe too time-consuming (or something) to list them. And I'm saying that the very fact there are "so many" changes is the reason there should be an explanation included. If there were "few" changes, I'd be less likely to need a readme.