Are We Evil?

[Puke]

What if it was a planet full of your people, whom were under-producing and whom were drains on your social security system? Would aliviating a tax burden via planetary napalm be considered evil?

Is killing your friend different from killing your enemy? In the end, they are both still dead.

How about if it was a fully developed porportions homeworld, but the whole place was like Los Angeles. Would you be heralded as a hero?

What if you shot down an unarmed ship? Is killing five people or one hundered people different from butchering fifty billion? Why? Do all their souls cry out against you, or do you fear some sort of karmic reprisal from the universe?

What if you killed a family of mice whom were trying to eek out their survival in your home, after you displaced their natural habitat? What about ants? bacteria in the kitchen sink? How far down the food chain do you have to go to kill, before you feel okay about it?

Who judges our actions, and on what basis? Are there some sort of universal laws that say we should all hold hands and sing? Are other life forms, like lower "animals" held to these laws? How about plants? What about some hypothetical alien culture? What seperates a green skinned guy on another planet, from a brown skinned guy on another continent? what seperates him from the guy next to you?

Wars are fought over land and property. All of them. If wars were not to be fought, and we were all to hold hands and sing, we would have had to stop expanding as a culture, long before the agricultural revolution. Do we villify progress to prevent killing, or justify murder to further our civilization?

[Kamog]

What if you killed a family of mice whom were trying to eek out their survival in your home, after you displaced their natural habitat? What about ants? bacteria in the kitchen sink? How far down the food chain do you have to go to kill, before you feel okay about it?

Well, I don't feel OK about killing spiders. Most of the people around me, when they see a spider they immediately step on it. I can't do that. I've asked people to stop but they won't listen. I feel bad everytime I see that happen.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

nope.

[Grandpa Kim]

Some good RL points but regarding the game, I'm like Gandalf. Even in my KOTH games I try to capture not slag. I just don't feel right about killing billions, after all, that Emperor leading my people is my alter ego.

I would like to see a HUGE penalty for slagging planets in SEIV. Say 5% to anger for the first slagged planet in a turn, after that 20%!! ... for both the aggressor and defender. Hmm, perhaps only 5% each instance for the defender...

[Fyron]

Mod the happiness types. (happiness.txt)

[Baron Munchausen]

Hmm.... to bring this more into the context of SE as a game, does this thread amount to a vote for better population AI? Should there be 'morale' effects on your population for enemy killed as well as your own? Should AI Empires take notice of how you conduct your wars and react accordingly (different settings for different races, of course).

I'd like to see a subtler system for handling conquered populations, myself. It shouldn't be so simple as leaving a few troops on planets with 'non-native' races and building some special 'population control' building (UPC or whatever). There ought to be unrest and espionage/sabotage problems and outright rebellions when war with the 'empire' of origin is raging.

[Puke]

from the file:

Peacefull:
Any Enemy Planet Captured := -30

Bloodthirsty:
Any Enemy Planet Captured := -50

Neutral:
Any Enemy Planet Captured := 20

so the neutral player is actually happier to glass the buggers.. I would change it so that the peacefull player gets a large bonus for caputring, the bloodthirsty player gets a large penalty for capturing, and the netural player does not care so much.

[Fyron]

Bloodthirsty != Genocidal

I would think that a bloodthirsty race would be happier invading, as they get to kill the enemy themselves, and actually see the blood.

More happiness options would alleviate the lack of specificity in the 3 stock happiness types... there are a lot more options than just those 3.

[ January 03, 2004, 22:12: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Baron Munchausen]

But does the AI engine notice these settings? I don't think it does, so you would only find this useful in a 'human only' game. AIs would be prone to glass planets any time they didnt have troops available.

[ZeroAdunn]

I never glass worlds (on purpose) never, I don't care if they are those slimy drushocka or the watery sargetti..... Well unless it's those damned EEE.... Then I glass first and never bother to ask questions. When the Vinshran Holy War is over, not a single EEE shall be left standing! Stand beside me in my divine quest to exterminate the EEE or fall before me!!!!!!!!