Small ships and mines - Page 2

Seawolf · #11 January 16th, 2001, 06:18 PM

Anyone got a good minesweeper design? I got a mine field to clear but as soon as I get in my ship goes boom! It clears some mines but I keep losing the ship. Any suggestions?

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Seawolf on the prowl

WhiteHojo · #12 January 16th, 2001, 06:18 PM

Can you mix 2 General Groups in 1 component? That is, can you combind an armor group w/a minesweeper group? In the component file, it shows armor to be a Gen Grp of Armor and minesweeper as Gen Grp of Unit Launch. Can you add the Minesweeper Ability tyep to the Armor as a 2nd Ability type like the Organic/emmisive/Crystal armor has 2 Ability types?

My goal is to reduce the effectiveness and thus players reliance on Mines in the early/mid game. So I had a thought, make a armor component w/minesweeping capabilities. Don't know if it would work - not sure how the minesweeper works in game terms (does it automatically sweep for mines whenever you enter a minefield or do you have to use the sweep for mines button - logically it seems it wld have to start sweeping upon entering a minefield or it wld be destroyed b/f doing any sweeping)

Just a crazy Tues morning idea (woke up at 4:30 this morning w/this on my mind - gotta stop playin the game b/f I go to bed) - any feedback wld be apreciated.

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Character is best defined as that which you do when you believe nobody is watching.

Puke · #13 January 16th, 2001, 06:37 PM

quote:
Originally posted by WhiteHojo:
Can you mix 2 General Groups in 1 component? That is, can you combind an armor group w/a minesweeper group? In the component file, it shows armor to be a Gen Grp of Armor and minesweeper as Gen Grp of Unit Launch. Can you add the Minesweeper Ability tyep to the Armor as a 2nd Ability type like the Organic/emmisive/Crystal armor has 2 Ability types?

you cant put a component in more than one group, but you can give it as many abilities as you want. so yes, you can make something to do what you describe. but no, it cant go into 'both' Groups. you have to pick one, or create a new group.

WhiteHojo · #14 January 16th, 2001, 06:56 PM

Ok just answered one of my questions, yes it is automatic to sweep for mines when you enter a minefield. Did a test, built a Frig Attack Ship w/a minesweeper component V on it, moved to a warp point w/5 enemy mines already there, warped through and auto sweeped the mines.

So my thought is this - if you could a) either modifiy the armor comp'nt to include some type of minesweeping ability (leave out the "real life problems and realistic arguments", I'm goin for game balance here) or maybe modify the shield comp'nts also since all races seem to use either armor or shields in their designs or b) somehow alter the design files of all races to include some form of minesweeper comp'nt in all designs, maybe a smaller Version of the minesweeper comp'nt?

I moved the attack Ship in my experiment thru a minefield w/more mines than it could sweep and after it swept it's limit it was destroyed.

Just more off the top of my head - create some new cmpt that will sweep for mines but make it smaller and more effective - tie the amount it can sweep and its size to the tech level of ship sizes (when disc cruiser sized hulls, cmpt is avail at 10kt and sweeps X amount, at Lt Cruiser make it say 15kt and sweeps X*2 amount, etc...)... thus the larger the hull size you research the more effective your minedefense is and thus the mine strat is less effective w/o it being totally useless. Obviously I have'nt thought this all the way through but I wanted to get some feedback anyway. (yes, I have a slow day at work)

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Character is best defined as that which you do when you believe nobody is watching.

Taqwus · #15 January 16th, 2001, 07:08 PM

One reason why, versus people, I'd probably use smaller, more numerous, cheaper ships than I use against the AI (I tend to go in for few-but-expensive-and-powerful otherwise) -- the anti-ship intel ops only affect one ship at a time. The AI doesn't make good use of them (as noted to Malfador, I've *never* lost a ship to CI, or a planet to PPP for that matter, even on Hard, which is very strange considering that I've seen many other ops at least once).

You're in a lot, LOT bigger trouble if you're defending your border with just a handful of powerful ships per system, and some get subverted, than if the same number of smaller ships gets subverted from a horde.

But for more balancing -- ISTR that somebody reported that the engines-per-move setting was finally working. So you might want to try boosting this -- e.g. a DN, which currently can take 4 engines, now takes up to 16, but requires 4 (or maybe more!) engines per move; same top speed, but far more space required.

They should theoretically also require larger or more powerful shield generators (field needs to be larger), and heavier armor for the same effective degree of protection (again, much more surface area), but we may not be able to do that yet.

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-- The thing that goes bump in the night

WhiteHojo · #16 January 16th, 2001, 07:23 PM

Found I forgot to finish my thought in that Last post...So my thought is this - if you could a) either modifiy the armor comp'nt to include some type of minesweeping ability (leave out the "real life problems and realistic arguments", I'm goin for game balance here) or maybe modify the shield comp'nts also since all races seem to use either armor or shields in their designs or b) somehow alter the design files of all races to include some form of minesweeper comp'nt in all designs, maybe a smaller Version of the minesweeper comp'nt wouldn't this lessen the impact of mines? Some may say just reduce the damage done but I've found that the amount of damage from mines is not cumulative on the ships, nor does the amount of damage done per mine appear to be the total of the damage of the warheads in each mine. Ex done in test - colony ship w/1 colony unit (200 dam res'tnce), 1 crew,bridge&life suprt @ 10dam per, 5 engines @ 20 dam res'tnce per & 2 armor at 40 dam rest'nce per enters minefield w/19 sm mines w/100kt warhead (2 per mine). Ship is damaged but not destroyed - every result is 1 col unit undamaged and 1 random unit left undamaged... so it appears that each warhead damage is calculated by itself and the damage done to a comp'nt does not carry over to the next warhead... doesn't make much sense but it's the only explanation that fits. So reducing the amount of damage each warhead does would render all mines worthless - which is not my goal - just to make em less effective and unbalanced.

sorry for the long Posts

WhiteHojo · #17 January 16th, 2001, 08:57 PM

A short question - maybe classified as a Bug but not sure - If a Colony ship has all but 1 engine and it's colony unit destroyed by mines, how is it able to move in a tactical/Strat battle - bridge/lifesupport/crew quarters are gone - Who's Running the thing?

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Character is best defined as that which you do when you believe nobody is watching.

jonas · #18 January 17th, 2001, 01:10 AM

quote:
If a Colony ship has all but 1 engine and it's colony unit destroyed by mines, how is it able to move in a tactical/Strat battle - bridge/lifesupport/crew quarters are gone - Who's Running the thing?
[/b]

Some pour wounded guys in emergency space suits!

Tampa_Gamer · #19 January 17th, 2001, 02:17 AM

Emporer Zod -

Currently, cloaking (and stealth armor) is broken in that none of the AI races are cloaking their sats/ships/bases even if they have researched it and placed it on their hulls. I sent MM an e-mail regarding this, so hopefully this will be fixed soon.

[This message has been edited by Tampa_Gamer (edited 16 January 2001).]

Zanthis · #20 January 17th, 2001, 06:11 AM

If you want to weaken mines given the existing system, give nearly every direct fire weapon in the game the ability to sweep one mine (like a minesweeper I component). I'd start the minesweeper series at sweeping 6 mines and up it by say 2 per level to 14 for a level V.

I'd probably not give mine sweeping to torpedo weapons or anything with a reload greater than one. Might even avoid putting it on DUC, or at least earlier DUC (I & II). It goes without saying that the alligence subverter would not get this ability.

This might help direct fire weapons vs seekers, especially earlier in the game. Not only that, but later, when you start using weapon mounts, you'll be getting your heavy mount PPB, but it will still only sweep one mine. Interesting tradeoff IMO.