Dom I Strategies which WON'T work in Dom II

[Nerfix]

The Damage Shields and stuff like Vine Shield do their damage after the attack has been made.

IMO this may tone down the supercombatants a bit.

And i am more than happy to see army gaters being restricted.

[ October 15, 2003, 17:37: Message edited by: Nerfix ]

[Saber Cherry]

...oops, this was old news by the time I posted.

[ October 15, 2003, 17:46: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

[Gandalf Parker]

I have no problem with army gaters being restricted. I understand their problems for MP play. And limiting them lab2lab would be good.

Its the personal transports Im concerned with. Can I still "air trapeze" a mage somewhere in order to BUILD a lab?

[johan osterman]

Originally posted by apoger:
The ten whammy's were;

1> Super Combatants
2> Instant Magical Movement
3> Magic Duel
4> Ritual Summons
5> Battlefield Summons
6> Battlefield Domination Spells
7> Storms
8> Army BLasting
9> Province BLasting
10> Assassination

1> Super Combatants - Toned down? How?
2> Instant Magical Movement - Only lab to lab now? Not sure if I like this. I would have prefered making it much harder/expensive, but keeping the effect.
3> Magic Duel - Not sure how this has changed, if at all.
4> Ritual Summons - Probably have changed, but I don't know about the changes yet.
5> Battlefield Summons - Word is that battlefield conjuration has been seriously limited. Gem costs for even lesser elementals and double fatigue. Not sure I like this, as it was a mainstay of the game. Will judge when I see the new system in action.
6> Battlefield Domination Spells - With ward rendered non-perfect these combo's are severely weakened.
7> Storms - Delighted to see this taken down a few notches.
8> Army BLasting - Stuff like Murdering Winter. Might be more popular than ever now that it's harder to project power.
9> Province BLasting - Same as above
10> Assassination - Not sure if the spells that kill commanders are still around. Will have to see.

In the new enviornment we may see much more play with magic pretenders and bless. Also we may see more done with global spells, since that may be the only way to "reach out" with your power now that you can't get there with troops. This is all conjecture of course... I'll have more to say once the game is released and I have a chance to evaluate the situation.

In the meantime if some beta testers have comments, feel free to give us a clue.

1: Supercombatants are somewhat weakened by the strikeback taking effect after the hit is landed instead of before, for all strikebacks except the petrification gaze of the Medua/Aegis.
2: Gateway is only to lab, Faery trod to any forest, there is a new more difficult and expensive astral spell that works like gateway used to, as well as a similar difficult death spell that carries with it a few danger for those using it.
3. In a tie both participants die.
4. Varies with the spells, some are as they used to be some are changed.
5: Varies with the battlefield summons.
6,7: Is altered as you mentioned above
8,9,10: Are more or less the same.

[Daynarr]

Originally posted by apoger:
The ten whammy's were;

1> Super Combatants
2> Instant Magical Movement
3> Magic Duel
4> Ritual Summons
5> Battlefield Summons
6> Battlefield Domination Spells
7> Storms
8> Army BLasting
9> Province BLasting
10> Assassination

1> Super Combatants - Toned down? How?
2> Instant Magical Movement - Only lab to lab now? Not sure if I like this. I would have prefered making it much harder/expensive, but keeping the effect.
3> Magic Duel - Not sure how this has changed, if at all.
4> Ritual Summons - Probably have changed, but I don't know about the changes yet.
5> Battlefield Summons - Word is that battlefield conjuration has been seriously limited. Gem costs for even lesser elementals and double fatigue. Not sure I like this, as it was a mainstay of the game. Will judge when I see the new system in action.
6> Battlefield Domination Spells - With ward rendered non-perfect these combo's are severely weakened.
7> Storms - Delighted to see this taken down a few notches.
8> Army BLasting - Stuff like Murdering Winter. Might be more popular than ever now that it's harder to project power.
9> Province BLasting - Same as above
10> Assassination - Not sure if the spells that kill commanders are still around. Will have to see.

In the new enviornment we may see much more play with magic pretenders and bless. Also we may see more done with global spells, since that may be the only way to "reach out" with your power now that you can't get there with troops. This is all conjecture of course... I'll have more to say once the game is released and I have a chance to evaluate the situation.

In the meantime if some beta testers have comments, feel free to give us a clue.

1) Super Combatants are practically non-existent, at least not in the same way they used to be in Dom I. There is new combat system that allows units to hit enemy with fire shield before they take damage, so even if fire shield will kill them, they still do damage. Also, any following attack after first one (during same turn of course) reduces protection by 1 and defender's fatigue also increases chances of penetrating armor. In effect, units may gang up on "super combatant" and take him down even if they suffer heavy losses. I've seen this in action and rarely if ever send my combatants in battle without some heavy cover from other troops.

2) Well, I'm not 100% sure about change since I'm not sure how it was, but you can move armies between friendly labs and there is teleport spell that can teleport your mage anywhere. Note that labs have more strategic importance now since they can repair magical units that normally don't heal (like crushers). Of course, you can destroy labs if needed.

3) Not sure about this one since I rarely use it.

4) Again hard to tell what has changed about them since I have little insight on how it was in Dom I, but as far as I can tell there are lots more summons which vary greatly. Also, seasonal spirits have been toned down and since there are seasons in game now, their power depends on time of season they are in. E.g. Summer Lions are weakest during winter and strongest during summer.
There are elemental Kings and Queens that can "Summon Allies" (no cost of gems) and add elementals to your standard armies. They are in limited number for each element and each has his own name, characteristics and special abilities. They even summon different creatures.
Not sure if it was in Dom I but there is Fairy Queen that can be summoned which can heal your troops just like Arco priestess. The rest of the changes you will probably be able to see for yourselves, but in my experience there is no real summon that will dominate all others. All have some purpose.

5) There have been discussions about that already but you are first person I saw that liked previous system better. Its true, now all elemental summons cost gems, but there are high level spells that can summon a larger number of them instantly (at great cost of gems and fatigue of course).

6) Wards have been nerfed, but Pocus is right. There are high-level (8th level) enchantment spells that will protect all your troops. However, that can be thwarted by simply increasing research costs to high or very high, thus making their usage available only in late long games.

7) Yes, storms are toned down but still useful. Of course there is still arrow fend spell that gives 80% protection from missiles (rather hard to get to if high research cost though)

8) Not much experiences with that one but they are probably still useful. I have experienced enemy global spell (Wrath of God I think it was called) but his effect was slight anywhere outside his dominion. I WAS losing troops to it, although rarely. Most likely those spells are domain dependant: stronger caster's dominion = more powerful spell.

9) Not sure what has changed

10) Seeking arrows and flaming arrows are still working but not overpowered since they cost significant number of gems and you can never be really sure of the effect they had (no report if you killed anything). Also, AI will use lots of them and will use Assassins and spies a lot. Protect those commanders!

[Nerfix]

Flaming arrows killing commanders?


Is there a new commander-bLasting spell?

[Pocus]

Originally posted by johan osterman:

quote:

---

Originally posted by apoger:
8> Army BLasting - Stuff like Murdering Winter. Might be more popular than ever now that it's harder to project power.

8,9,10: Are more or less the same.

---

The great equalizers and I never liked them. Too easy to level a stronger opponent with them. Beside that the most often used by far, Murdering winter, does cold damages, so some nations (guess what, Caelum is in the list too!) are immune to it.

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by Pocus:

quote:

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Originally posted by johan osterman:

quote:

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Originally posted by apoger:
8> Army BLasting - Stuff like Murdering Winter. Might be more popular than ever now that it's harder to project power.

8,9,10: Are more or less the same.

---

The great equalizers and I never liked them. Too easy to level a stronger opponent with them. Beside that the most often used by far, Murdering winter, does cold damages, so some nations (guess what, Caelum is in the list too!) are immune to it.

---

Well... I hope the mod tools are powerful enough to change this. But I'd prefer if it was changed in the vanilla game. Especially 8 and 9... making the effect proportional to dominion strength might be useful... so that you could still target any province, but you couldn't annihilate the enemy's capitol easily and cheaply. Something like... +10 your dominion gives a full-strength spell, +10 enemy dominion gives a zero-strength spell, and anywhere in between gives a linearly interpolated strength.

-Cherry

[Mortifer]

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:

quote:

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Originally posted by Pocus:

quote:

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Originally posted by johan osterman:

quote:

---

Originally posted by apoger:
8> Army BLasting - Stuff like Murdering Winter. Might be more popular than ever now that it's harder to project power.

8,9,10: Are more or less the same.

---

The great equalizers and I never liked them. Too easy to level a stronger opponent with them. Beside that the most often used by far, Murdering winter, does cold damages, so some nations (guess what, Caelum is in the list too!) are immune to it.

---

Well... I hope the mod tools are powerful enough to change this. But I'd prefer if it was changed in the vanilla game. Especially 8 and 9... making the effect proportional to dominion strength might be useful... so that you could still target any province, but you couldn't annihilate the enemy's capitol easily and cheaply. Something like... +10 your dominion gives a full-strength spell, +10 enemy dominion gives a zero-strength spell, and anywhere in between gives a linearly interpolated strength.

-Cherry

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I second this.

[apoger]

>3. In a tie both participants die.

Nice. I like that.
It's still potent though. The nations with mages that have astral-1 skill will have to worry about a beefy astral mage waltzing in and cleaning house.

>there is a new more difficult and expensive astral spell that works like gateway used to, as well as a similar difficult death spell that carries with it a few danger for those using it.

Excellent.
I like that it's still available, just more difficult.

>1) Super Combatants are practically non-existent

I must really wonder if this is true, or if you just haven't been abused yet.

>There is new combat system that allows units to hit enemy with fire shield before they take damage

While this is a good first step, it would barely degrade many super-combatants.

>Also, any following attack after first one (during same turn of course) reduces protection by 1 and defender's fatigue also increases chances of penetrating armor. In effect, units may gang up on "super combatant" and take him down even if they suffer heavy losses.

It's this way in Dom I as well. A well constructed super combatant will still clean house.

The worst offenders were Ice Devils, which were simply too cheap, and were easy to mass produce. Father Illearths and Pazazu also made quite an impact. I'm hoping this all got toned down a few notches.

>2) Well, I'm not 100% sure about change since I'm not sure how it was, but you can move armies between friendly labs and there is teleport spell that can teleport your mage anywhere.

If the personal movement spells are still working, which is what you seem to imply, then players will react by changing strategy to promote mobile super combatants, and mobile mage teams. If you can bring the mages but not the armies, then that's what will happen. Players will abuse mobility at any opportunity. I know I do...

> Also, seasonal spirits have been toned down and since there are seasons in game now, their power depends on time of season they are in.

Sounds interesting, but I'd need to see that in action before comment.

>There are elemental Kings and Queens that can "Summon Allies" (no cost of gems)

That was in Dom I.

>They are in limited number for each element and each has his own name, characteristics and special abilities.

However in Dom I they wern't limited.

>Not sure if it was in Dom I but there is Fairy Queen that can be summoned which can heal your troops just like Arco priestess.

Always a good summons. The heal ability is new, as far as I know.

>5) There have been discussions about that already but you are first person I saw that liked previous system better.

I'm not sure which system I like better.
I am just concerned because this is a major change to game balance.

>6) Wards have been nerfed, but Pocus is right. There are high-level (8th level) enchantment spells that will protect all your troops.

I have no problem with that. In fact I like that the potent spells are available but take more effort.

>10) Seeking arrows and flaming arrows are still working but not overpowered since they cost significant number of gems

I'm more concerned with Mind Hunt and Vengence of the Dead.

[ October 15, 2003, 19:34: Message edited by: apoger ]