Vanheim Pretenders: Allfather and Asynya

[Teraswaerto]

Asynja should cost less. No more than 50, in line with other giant humanoids like Son of the Son, Daughter of the Land, etc. Of course, they are probably too expensive too...

[ June 02, 2004, 17:14: Message edited by: Teraswaerto ]

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Teraswaerto:
Asynja should cost less. No more than 50, in line with other giant humanoids like Son of the Son, Daughter of the Land, etc. Of course, they are probably too expensive too...

The daughter of the land is probably exactly the right cost, since she also generates two water gems per turn. The other 50 point pretenders are probably a little overprices, but this mostly comes from having to bump them up to 6 or 7 astral, or from their tendency to rout thanks to their bodyguards.

[Reverend Zombie]

Tuidjy,

Your post has given me a chance to test both my new avatar and the formatting in my signature.

Thanks!

[JJ_Colorado]

Tuidjy - it seems that you are repeatedly criticizing the "call for nerfing the Allfather" (not an exact quote, but a general summing up btw). However, no one that I've seen on this thread is even talking about nerfing the Allfather other than you. This thread started as a thought-provoking question regarding the Asynja (sp?) vs the Allfather and has never gone in the direction of nerfing the Allfather - yet you keep arguing against nerfing the Allfather - who are you arguing against?

John

P.S. In reply to the initial post that suggested choosing Asynja over Allfather you posted this completely over-dramatic reply to a non-existent call for nerfing:
"RIGHT! Allfather is too strong! He is beating
up my poor Vampire Queen in her own domain, so
he is OBVIOUSLY too strong. NERF THE BASTARD!

NERF! NERF! NERF!!!!!

WHAAAAAAHHHHH"

[PvK]

Sounds like maybe he's been traumatized (or at least, made sick with sarcasm) by all the many various Posts about "X needs nerf and Y is useless".

PvK

[Tuidjy]

Ok, so you think I am paranoid. Let see what
makes me think that Cohen is, indeed, calling
for a nerf.

1. From his signature: 'The enemy of the SC and
all the overpowered and unbalanced things.'

Self-proclaimed paladin with a mission.

2. From his first post: 'Well, I believe that for
125 points, he is very cheap.'

He is not discussing improving Anysya, is he?

3. From his follow-up post: 'If I propose
something, isn't for advantage myself, but for
game balance in general'

If he were trying to make Anysya viable, it
would be enhancing the game, not balancing it.

4. Instead of denying that he was calling for a
nerf, he goes: 'VQ should have his new path
cost to 70 points about ... and should have even
some more nerf.'

For those living under a rock, here is a proof
that he believes in nerfing. And by the way,
anyone would believes that the VQ needs 70 point
paths and 'some more nerf', would not know
restraint if it bit him on the nose.

5. And of course, there is Cohen's age long
habit of calling for changes that will make
Dominion II fit his ideas of 'how it should be'

It seems to me that Cohen's behavior follows
this pattern:
1. Badly lose to a tactic
2. Call for a nerf while using the tactic
3. Badly lose to something else

For example, Cohen was one of the biggest
proponents of a VQ-nerf (and proud of it) His
pretender of choice, during the outcry, was
Anya, the Vampire Queen. Poor Anya was getting
killed on average, hmm, about once per turn
on Pascentia, by, you guessed it, the Allfather.

By the by, he was mad castling as well. So I
think that he will call for a nerf to Vans and
archers, now that he's lost 4-5 castles to them.

So when I see him kindly concerned about poor
Anysya's popularity, I think I see where this
is going.

Hey, Norfleet may have a patent on paranoia, but
I've obtained a license.

[Huzurdaddi]

Tuidjy,

I don't understand your hatred of "nerfing." It's quite strange. Who cares if you improve a given game element of reduce a game element it amounts to the same thing. He is attempting to achieve balance.

It's just a matter of expediency. If you have a choice of nerfing one game element or "buffing" 20 then clearly you should nerf one. It takes less time to implement and it is less "moving pieces" where things could go wrong.

You would think that you were playing an MMORPG or something where you had "invested" time in your character and would be "hurt" if you character was nerfed. But you are not. You are playing a strategy game where how you did with your SC does not count for a hill of beans in the next game.

[Inigo Montoya]

Originally posted by Huzurdaddi:

It's just a matter of expediency. If you have a choice of nerfing one game element or "buffing" 20 then clearly you should nerf one. It takes less time to implement and it is less "moving pieces" where things could go wrong.

But in this situation, where the Allfather is comparable to other pretender choices and Asynja sucks so bad there is no reason at all to pick her, then nerfing would be a mistake, right? We don't need the Allfather nerfed. We need Asynja buffed a wee bit or reduced significantly in cost so we might actually end up selecting her.



EDIT: Spelled Asynja's name correctly.

[ June 04, 2004, 13:30: Message edited by: Inigo Montoya ]

[Stormbinder]

Originally posted by Tuidjy:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cohen:
Perhaps Tujdy has missed some others my Posts where I said that VQ should have his new path cost to 70 points about ... and should have even some more nerf. However it seems Devs have already take care of the vamp on the next patch.

If I propose something, isn't for advantage myself, but for game balance in general.
Full stop.

Yes, the Allfather is one of the best pretenders.
He is also one of the most expensive. He has one
major weakness. He is missing an eye, and Vanheim
has a horrible time fixing that. GoH, chalice,
etc... are very hard for Vanheim to get without
help. Heartbinding an arco priestess is the only
way I have managed it.

---

You are forgeting the little option of dying Tujdy. It fixed the lost eye all right for me, together with nasty Chest Wound. (Although it was not actually a "lost" eye, for Odin knew very well where and why did he left it )

Depending on your Pretender setup and avalaibilty of pristst, the dying with AllFather might not be a big deal to you, especially if you invested most of your points into some high lvl 9 blessing, which is a popular option when playing such a bless-friendly race as Vanheim.

I would certanly not reccomend such radical method to everyone, but it is something to keep in mind. As a good doctor said : "The dying is good for yor eyes"

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Inigo Montoya:
But in this situation, where the Allfather is comparable to other pretender choices and Asynya sucks so bad there is no reason at all to pick her, then nerfing would be a mistake, right?

I'm pretty sure that she has the highest base precision of any pretender chassis, which makes the combination of high air magic and thunderstrike quite impressive.