Ulm vs New Era

[Sandman]

Ulmish infantry is good. They've got extra hitpoints (which NE has as well), amongst the best equipment of any standard infantry, and still only cost 10 gold. Their magic resistance is a nasty problem though.

Sages are a good buy for Ulm. Even at full drain, they're much better than smiths at researching. And Ulm is probably the best nation for lightless latern forging, assuming they can rustle up some fire gems.

Drain immunity gives a whopping 120-point bonus; as well as the extra magic resistance and spell fatigue on non-smiths.

As already mentioned, Ulm gets a hefty resource bonus in its castles.

Ulmish smiths are solid, dependable mages that don't leave a hole in your budget, and they can cheaply forge their own equipment - earth boots and girdles of strength, mostly. Combined with earth power, and they're pretty formidable. Earth magic by itself is versatile enough to keep you going, anyway.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by PrinzMegaherz:
You will stumble over one of those libraries sooner or later. Ulm's drain scales makes sages useless, but NE has no problem with them, sp neutral magic is okay

Sages with drain 3 are actually still more cost effective than Master Smith's.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Sandman:
Drain immunity gives a whopping 120-point bonus; as well as the extra magic resistance and spell fatigue on non-smiths.

Smiths still suffer from extra fatigue from the drain scale.

[Pickles]

"Smiths still suffer from extra fatigue from the drain scalle"

Aha that probably explains why summon earth power - blade wind - blade wind flee got me killed not running with 99 fatigue

I am playing Ulm in a MP game ATM & rushing to construction 7, casting the forge of the ancients, and spamming "stuff" seems the main strength

Lightless lanterns are great too 2 gems with a hammer

Pickles

[Sandman]

Seems a little unfair; drain-immune should mean drain-immune!

Heh, without the ability to build any research enhancing tools. NE *needs* Magic of some level or another in order to make it's Dryad's cost/research bearable. While saying, "I can always get sages" this doesn't change that everyone else can get sages and you are in no better a position than you were before.

Cataphracts are vastly superior to Black Knights and thus NE has a distinct advantage over Ulm. Also another consideration is that Minotaurs and a goodly portion of the Satyrs (except for the Hoplite) are strat move 2. Both suffer from the same condition of non-random mages, but Pans have N3E2 and a significant Nature Income (which allows early or high powered Mother Oak/Gift of Health enchantments) and use of Horn of Valor/Supply items.

The comparison of Missile Troops is pretty moot, since NE doesn't have any missile troops and Ulm has high resource Missile Troops (the draw to missile troops is masses not really quality) and Missile weapons are nulled very early in the game with spells and magic items.

The Grove Guard is not really pro/con in the NEvUlm debate, mostly because the Grove Guard is in and of itself, not worth building with the Mino Soldiers right next to them.

The ability to stealth preach is also a big factor between the two.

I prefer NE.

[Vicious Love]

They're smiths, not battle mages. They have no business leaving the kitchen, except to cast Legions of Steel and get back to the forge.

[PrinzMegaherz]

Originally posted by Zen:

The Grove Guard is not really pro/con in the NEvUlm debate, mostly because the Grove Guard is in and of itself, not worth building with the Mino Soldiers right next to them.

What are the advantages of the normal Minotaures except the strategic move of 2?

[Boron]

hm i think ulm is still better . and with spies you can give pan ne who needs national troops nice trouble .

ulm really shines in forging . when you chose a wise magic path on your pretender he can summon good scs and your smith forge all the toys for them .

[PrinzMegaherz]

Originally posted by Boron:
ulm really shines in forging . when you chose a wise magic path on your pretender he can summon good scs and your smith forge all the toys for them

Is that so? Do you empower your smiths to do the forging? Or do you only use Fire Earth items? Imho you can't have a midgame SC without Death and Astral (Wraith Sword and Amulett of Luck)

Nature magic allows you to get most other paths trough the lamia queen, and the harpy queen gives you air magic. I think thats pretty versatile for a nation that is supposed to have bad magic.