Gas Prices

[El_Phil]

Atrocities said:
US Auto makers know they can make cars that can get better gas mileage, but they are in bed with the oil companies and keep gas mileage artifically lower. There are after market things you can do that improve mileage, but nothing that compares to what the manufacture can do.

And the greatest lie ever told is the lie that convinces people that evil does not exist. Oil companies love to perpetuate the myth that they are loosing money in order to hide the fact that they ar RAKING IT IN and laughing all the way to the bank. I remember a simular discussion about energy crisis a few years back and what do you know, it was all just an Eron scam to make money.

The first one is true, but not in the way you say it. Yes you can get spectacularly better mpg out of an engine than the US boys manage, but as US consumers don't care why bother spending money making good engines?

Biggest selling US vehicle is the F150 pickup, it does gallons per mile in terms of petrol use but no-one cares. Frankly if you buy a car with a ****e mpg, don't complain you spend alot on fuel. Follow the lead of shed loads of other Americans and buy a Japanese motor, when sales for GM and Ford drop even futher then they'll start producing decent engines. Not before though.

As for the second point, yes oil firms make loads of money. No it isn't out of petrol. A quick check of their books confirms that. Take BP, £18.5 billion from exploration and production, £5 billion from Refining and Marketing, a loss of £900 million from petrochemical. Now that includes alot of exceptionals and it was a bad year. £400 million profit from petrochemicals was last year is fairer. And that isn't just petrol for cars it includes aviation fuel and a hell of alot more besides. So frankly its small beer in the scheme of things.

[El_Phil]

LordFulgrymm said:
Thought this might be of interest:

http://lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

**Bangs head into wall repeatedly**

Yes oil producion will peak, no not in the forseable future, certainly not within 5 years.

No the worlds banks will not fall over if oil gets pricier.

The only reason oil sand/shale are uneconomic is because they cost more than $40/barrel to get out. But not much more.

That list of mergers is A. Inaccurate B. Misleading C. Pointless

The platinum article carefully misses out the massive and mysterious reserves in Russia, where platinum mining/production/reserves are still considered a state secret. And the entire Westveldt complex which is barely even scratched. Plus those liquid hydrogen loss figures are for piss poor insulated vessels, any cryogenic engineer worth his salt could do better than that.

Yes the black stuff wont last forever, however it wont happen soon. I think fusion will take care of it if I'm honest. They've got break even at the small scale so it's doable. What's needed is the impetus and all out effort, which is lacking at the moment.

Still if you want to live your life in gloom and only see the dark in everything go and read those books, then perhaps slash your wrist to cheer yourself up. But remember: Down not across.

[FJ_MD]

Hey! Why don't you buy European cars?


With your price per gallon and the European car KM per liter (25 KM with diesel) you will surely save lot of money.


Now that I think about it, Ford sell also here in Europe... if I was in you I surely go for the Ford Focus model (if you prefer american name)or Fiat Stilo or Volkswagen Golf V... why go for the big ugly pick up?

[LordFulgrymm]

LordFulgrymm said:
Thought this might be of interest:

http://lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

Sorry, just couldn't resist. A friend from India sent me this a while back. A lot of it just made me laugh; particularly numbers 4 and 5 in the "what can I do to prepare" section at the end. Classic!

Edit: I did have a link to a more balanced article on the same subject, but I can't seem to find it at the mo...doh!

[Atrocities]

I want a Ford Expidition Hybrid made by Honda!

Thanks for broading our perspective on the topic El Phil. Sometimes I forget that there is always more information and truth out side the conventional box of thinking that I give credit for.

[Leslie]

What should be mentioned, is gas prices is not just about the cost of getting around in your car.

When they talk about oil, they mean everything made with it.

I don't have a car, but I just moved from a place that used gas heat. Normally gas heat ISN'T more expensive, but that is now not really such an easy remark to make. I have electric heat here now, but my rent is inclusive (ie not my problem).

But oil is used for paint to clothing to pens to lubricants.
It impacts the price of your groceries, because it also runs farm equipment.

If they don't soon get a grip on the oil costs soon, it is eventually going to cause some trouble in more areas than just the cost to run your car.

[Atrocities]

A world wide oil shortage will lead to starvation and other comodities break downs. This is something that also is not in dispute.

[El_Phil]

Or perhaps as the price goes up oil will stop being wasted. well wasted isn't exactly right, but currently oil/plastics are dirt cheap so it's the first choice material, even if its not the best.

There was a story about DVD-R price rises, optical-grade polycarbonate the main component, is now $3.50/kg. Three and a half bucks for a very high grade plastic. That's massively cheap. A DVDs only, what a couple of dozen grammes? So how much of the cost of a DVD-R is actually the plastic? **ck all, yet the price rises 10% when the material goes up a few cents. So AT if you want a bunch of money grabbing fat cats.....

[Leslie]

"There was a story about DVD-R price rises"

Rising prices?

Heck, blank dvds seem to be so cheap now, I actually find needing an actual blank cd occasionally to be a nuisance, as a dvd holds more.

I have, when it is possible, considered compiling cds as images on dvds, just so I can have more for less.

[Xrati]

The higher prices are OK. They should have gone up years ago. The US has been paying some of the lowest prices in the world. I've just seen to much waste! Not just in personnel use but in corporate use as well. Jet planes flying empty, delivery people leaving their vehicles running and traffic systems that leave you stopping at almost every light instead of having them timed to keep traffic flowing. Maybe now we'll get better at conserving gas.
As El_Phil said, all plastics are a bi-product of oil. China is now using more oil than they used to. All this and more is causing the price to rise because production is still the same and we really aren't doing anything to increase it. BUT the real cause of the price increase is the refining process. We are operating at max capacity and there are no plans to increase that either.