good races for/against newbies.

[quantum_mechani]

magnate said:
(oddly leaving air blessing as the only really crappy one).

Air 9 is not terribly useful, but lower blesses have there uses. Death's is almost as weak as air, and blood is on average the worst.

[magnate]

quantum_mechani said:
Air 9 is not terribly useful, but lower blesses have there uses. Death's is almost as weak as air, and blood is on average the worst.

Ooh I so disagree! +2 str is awesome for any mass-produced troops. Can change a miss into a hit and a hit into a kill. I've never used Blood 9, but I presume the Blood Vengeance works like the spell, ie any unit attacking the blessed unit has to make an MR check or take its own damage! That should be handy too. No, I like blood blessing on the whole.

I also like death blessing - ok so the fear effect has small radius, but its combined effect from lots of blessed troops results in *much* earlier routs than you get otherwise. Ok so it's not useful vs. mindless or undead, but then what's new. I can at least agree with you about the D9 Death Curse blessing, that really doesn't strike me as worth the cost (though I guess it might work for undead Ermor themes with masses of free sacred units - I've never tried).

By contrast the 20% air shield of A4 is imho the least useful of the level 4 blessings (now I'm told how important reinvigoration is). I'd much rather have Fear (-3) on all my units.

Anyway, back to Turin ... I checked some battles and I can't see any penalty to def (or anything else), even on an SC with over 70 fatigue after buffing. Are you sure there are penalties? Is there a table somewhere? There's nothing in the manual addenda. Is it supposed to be visible on the unit stats in combat? Is it just def which is reduced? Please tell me more ...

CC

[quantum_mechani]

magnate said:

Ooh I so disagree! +2 str is awesome for any mass-produced troops. Can change a miss into a hit and a hit into a kill. I've never used Blood 9, but I presume the Blood Vengeance works like the spell, ie any unit attacking the blessed unit has to make an MR check or take its own damage! That should be handy too. No, I like blood blessing on the whole.

I also like death blessing - ok so the fear effect has small radius, but its combined effect from lots of blessed troops results in *much* earlier routs than you get otherwise. Ok so it's not useful vs. mindless or undead, but then what's new. I can at least agree with you about the D9 Death Curse blessing, that really doesn't strike me as worth the cost (though I guess it might work for undead Ermor themes with masses of free sacred units - I've never tried).

By contrast the 20% air shield of A4 is imho the least useful of the level 4 blessings (now I'm told how important reinvigoration is). I'd much rather have Fear (-3) on all my units.

+2 strength is nice, but so is the air shield, it can save you a ton of casualties for low armour sacreds (or heavies vs. crossbows). Really, none of the level 4+ blesses suck, but there is wide variation in the power of level nines. And blood does not have the blood vengeance effect, it has the death curse you are associating with death. Death has a rarely useful level 9 effect that gives you a weak souless warrior when a a sacred unit dies.

[Turin]

magnate said:


Anyway, back to Turin ... I checked some battles and I can't see any penalty to def (or anything else), even on an SC with over 70 fatigue after buffing. Are you sure there are penalties? Is there a table somewhere? There's nothing in the manual addenda. Is it supposed to be visible on the unit stats in combat? Is it just def which is reduced? Please tell me more ...

Well I guesss it´s not in the manual addenda, because it´s in the manual on page 15. It lowers defense by 1 for every ten points and attack by one for every 20 points though, so it´s a bit less important for niefel giants.

[magnate]

Doh! Thanks Turin - it's not shown in the actual battles though, which is why I missed it. That probably makes E4 more useful than W4 for most troops.

QM - my mistake (again) - you're right that I got D9 and B9 confused. Neither is much use then, though B4 remains one of my favourites. I don't see how A4 protects many of your flagellants or other weak sacreds - 80% of the arrows still get though and mow them down ...

CC

[PDF]

IMHO it's just N9 that matters for Niefels, you can rather easily gives the Jarls reinvigoration and quickness through items (making Jarls thugs/SC is THE way to go with Niefelheim).
Also Son of Niefel is also better than GM (who usually kills herself by trample fatigue).
Lastly I don't think Niefelheim is easy to play effectively in MP : super expensive troops, uber-crappy research until you get Sages...

[magnate]

Well, reinvigoration maybe, but quickness items are Construction 6, and as you say, research is poor. If you're bothering with an N9 bless it's probably worth taking W9 or E9 as well - E9 might be slightly more useful (though I'm not yet convinced of that) but W9 fits better with the theme's mages and gem income. W9N9 and casting Relief on your troops is probably how I'd try it.

[thejeff]

Doesn't the Neifel Jarl have water magic? That would be the early approach to quickness.

If you're using them as SC's you won't want to bring relief casters along, so E9 might be better.

Of course the real problem is with a double bless, your scales will be so bad you won't be able to afford any Neifel Jarls anyway.

[Kuritza_Dru]

Hand them Wraith swords and fatique problems are solved unless you're facing mass undead or constructs. And with a wrath crown or some empowerment they can also cast soul vortex. Not sure if it's worth the death gems though.

[magnate]

Yes the NJ has water magic, but can only cast quickness on himself, at least until Alteration 8. The W9 blessing gives all his accompanying troops quickness and +4 def.

Why not bring a Gygja along to cast relief? I don't understand why the role of the Jarl as an SC makes a difference to that. Unless you're assuming that SC Jarls would have no troops with them. Then yes, you just give them reinvig items. And no need for W9 bless I guess - but then level 9 blessings are pretty pointless on tiny numbers of SCs, they're more useful on large numbers of cheaper units (in this case Woodsmen). Plus you need units for sieges.

Ho hum.