Carry Capacity for Jeep, Kuebelwagen, etc.

[blitzkreig]

Chuck,

One of the things I've noticed and actually really like about this game is that sometimes weird stuff happens. I don't know how the code works to nake it thus but it does seem to convey the "fog of war" quite well. What may in fact seem "strange" such as only one casualty in this case seems to model a hundred and one posibilites such as "ops I missed" or the "the bloody guns jammed!"

On the reverse side this works to the players advantage when "incredabile" results benefit the player. I recently had a very brave SS 3 man 50mm mortar team defend a victory hex (after the rest of the pltoon ran away) for 5 turns all on its own. It managed to fight off a polish infanrty coy with nothing but an smg, a few He rounds and some harsh language! Needless to say I was most impressed!

It works both ways

Regards

Ian

[chuckfourth]

Hi Ian.
Actually no It doesnt work both ways (see my tests) at 150m you -never- kill anymore than 1 man. I woundnt mind at all if occasionally half or all of the squad was hit but this doesnt happen.

The problem is this,
OK we can get 6 fully kitted men in a kubelwagen how often in reality did six fully kitted men get in a kubelwagon? rarely, very rarely. But in the game everyone puts 6 fully kitted infanty in the kubelwagen -every- time you use it because that is what it carries.
Take it a step further
When you look on the internet for pictures of WWII tanks in motion how many of the photos show the tanks covered in infantry? one in a hundred? play PBEM for a while how many players don't load an infantry squad onto every tank, 1 in 100. This is because in the game it has been decided that the maximum carrying capacities have been used for vehicles as can occour in -exceptional- circumstances.
But because you can load your full squads on you do it -all- the time. and why wouldnt you? looking at the lack of casualties caused by a burst of MG fire at 13 men bunched up in a tight ball on the back of a tank anyone would think they were travelling in the tank.
One other problem no one seems to consider is what does the fully kitted infantry use for handholds on the various vehicles while they drive at full speed cross-county for kilometer after kilometer? not a trivial question.
Best regards Chuck.

[DRG]

Chuck, is it not obvious to you by now that we have a different idea of what a "big" problem with the game is than you do? Why DO you worry about how many men we allow to load into a kubelwagen? Do you not see that these simple little compromises were made to aid playability and that virtually NOBODY but you has any kind of issue with this?

Don

[chuckfourth]

Hi Don
Kubelwagen is just an example, Personally I think Carrying capacities are too high for most vehicles in particular tanks.
Id still be interested to know if you think not being able to hit any more than one man when firing with a MG at 150m at a squad of infantry bunched up on the back of a tank is "authentic"?
Best Chuck.

[DRG]

We'll look into it after the summer.

Don

[Cross]

Here are eight fully equipped British airborne on a jeep, and there's still room for more.
Even without the trailer there are five men on the jeep and there's clearly room for another on the back and the stretcher on the hood/bonnet (UK) is empty.



Perhaps we should upgrade the jeep to allow it to carry a full section/squad

Cheers,
Cross

[Marek_Tucan]

Well, that's the classical question... How many men will fit into xxxxxx vehicle?

One more Always
I have a nice pic of UAZ jeep filled with really LOT of Russian soldiers. We were able to count at least 12, but it is possible one "soldier" on the pic is in fact composition of two

[Ironfist]

I was always wondering how could a Tank carry up to 13 men, as the OOB indicates. Until I saw this picture.



Here is the link. It contains some real experience of tank & infantry team work.
http://www.lonesentry.com/combatlessons/index.html

Best Regards
Ironfist

[Imp]

Originally Posted by chuckfourth

Hi Don
OK then maybe we should sweat some slightly bigger crap, Something closely related to carrying capacity, maybe you noticed the tests I did on your behalf in the "more newbie ??'s" in the Winspww2 forum, Do you think thats its realistic that your 13 men packed on the back of a stationary T34 receive just one casualtie when an unseen MG42 opens up at them at 150m?
Best Chuck.

I just ran a test but did with moving tanks because moving makes you more vulnerable.
Vision set to 150m 8 man squads on 30 tanks.
Casulties get worse the faster you move just like foot infantry.
Average loss 2 men but if MG got a chance to fire second MG weapon slot losing half a squad is not uncommon. If an RPG team was riding to can get messy.
Applies obviosly to op fire as well.
So loss is 1/4-1/2 of the riders.
If you think some will be in front & some behind turret sounds reasonable, think about it.
If I was manning the MG would I really open up at 150ms versus a tank. Quick burst maybe but I would actualy be more intreasted in planning my exit route afterwards before the tank opens up than hitting anything.

[Imp]

A further note on carry capacities. Desperate times means desperate measures the vehicle might only carry 2 but if it saves your life you are going to risk falling off.
If the game code allowed people should be able to ride on the outside of APCs, or even cleverer if go over rough terrain riders might take casulties depending on speed.

When I was young (&stupid?) in Thailand we hitched a lift on a lite van, 4 of us standing on the bumper hanging onto the drainage channels & ariel of all things.
I am still alive & it beat walking 3 miles
People hanging off vehicles was common out there.
Buses if full you ride the roof rack or bumper, has handles & they only slow down to let you off as on a timetable & get docked pay if late.
With practice you can jump from a vehicle doing 15-20mph & stay on your feet, the trick is to start running before you hit the ground & lean into it.