Quikness - what does it do exactly?

[parcelt]

Yeah - the black hunter spiders come with standard protection of 20. Attack is 12 and defense is 11.

So then a W9N4 bless would make them very hard to kill I guess, and I might add either E4 or F4, depending...

[thejeff]

But also consider the spiders. Once the riders die they are still sacred. More hps but low protection and mr.

I'm not sure what bless works best with them.
Nature for the regen. Fire is always good.

[Ironhawk]

llamabeast said:
Yep, strong water bless is generally considered the best bless, I think. Combine with a strong fire bless for some super bless action.

I dont think this is the case. A water bless effectively gives you only 1.5 attacks/round. But a fire bless gives you 2 attacks/round AND makes sure they both hit. If you had to pick one bless which was the "best" (if you can ever say that in dom) then it is fire, not water. Tho water is probably second place.

[Saulot]

That's not quite correct. A water bless gives you 1.5 X whatever amount of attacks you already have. A fire bless does not confer 2 attacks a round unless the creature already possesses 2 attacks a round.
So with the water bless if you have 2, you're getting 4 on every other turn. Since each attack is at a -2 defense to protect against, whenever a creature attacks 4 times, the attacks will essentially be at +0, +2, +4, +6.
This is even more so the case with 3 attack sacred creatures. Though I don't believe there are more than a few of those.
To summarize a 2 attack creature with fire bless would have attacks at +4, +6 (over it's standard attack value) every turn. Whereas a 2 attack creature with water bless would have attacks at +0, +2 one round AND at +0, +2, +4, +6 the second round. If you consider them that way, the water bless is much worse attackwise on half the rounds, and a little better on the other half.

Furthermore, water 9 also gives 4 defense, which depending on the creature is a very serious difference in survival. Generally speaking, it is more important for your troops to be hard to kill, and moderate at killing, than the reverse.

The movement speed boost is not to be ignored either.

Upon some reflection this is somewhat comparing the wrong things, since the comparison should be between the strong fire bless (6ap fire attack) vs. the strong water bless (50% quickness), seperately from the +4 attack, vs +4 defense.

I will however, not state that any one is 'THE' best. That's purely a judgement call, and such things are never facts.

[llamabeast]

Try E9N9 on the spiders. Might make them very hard to kill (prot 20). Might be disappointing, but worth a test.

The 2 attacks a round for the fire bless are against the same person though. Still, I've never really played a heavy bless game so I've not got much conviction in my opinion.

[PyroStock]

Ironhawk said:
I dont think this is the case. A water bless effectively gives you only 1.5 attacks/round. But a fire bless gives you 2 attacks/round AND makes sure they both hit. If you had to pick one bless which was the "best" (if you can ever say that in dom) then it is fire, not water. Tho water is probably second place.

I'll throw another vote for water. Quickness means you are more likely to reach your target faster/first (aside from fliers) so a blessed fire unit might not survive long enough to make their attack either due to enemy magic, arrows or a faster unit reaching them first. And the water bless defense bonus cannot be ignored anymore than fire's attack bonus. Just anecodetal evidence, but from reading these forums I've also seen more blue dragon commentary/recommendations than red dragon and I would expect the reverse if fire was generally "best". Nevertheless, I think most can agree it depends or that there is no "best".

[thejeff]

Best is not even a judgement call. It varies from nation to nation and unit to unit.

E9 is great with high protection units and mages.
If you've got low prot troops and no sacred mages it's useless.

Water is always good, but the defense bonus is best with high defense troops. If you've got a low defense, you'll get hit even with the +3.

The regen from nature is great on high hp troops, but even the lesser chance of afflictions isn't useful on something like flagellants. They die if they get hit.

Twist fate doesn't really help Neifel giants, but it doubles flagellants lifespan.

etc, etc.

Water and fire are probably the most generally useful. Everybody can benefit from more damage and more attacks. But they may not be the best for a particular nation.