Interested in SE-V -- differences to GalCiv II?

[Captain Kwok]

In SE:V, the tactical combat is in real-time.

If you'd only pick one of the two to buy, I'd go for SE:V. It's not quite as polished or has the same mod base as SE:IV yet, but it features generally better game mechanics and is more flexible for modding.

[Barnacle Bill]

I'm going to address your question in a somewhat different way - not AI or specific features, but about the underlying framework of the game to which everything else is basically bolted on.

The GalCiv series is, in spirit, descended from the Sid Meier "Civilization" games, which in turn are desended from the old mainframe game "Empire". Basically, Sid took "Empire" and added internal management of cities, technology development , diplomacy and a lot of (for its day) glitzy graphics. The fundamentals were the same - a map with a square grid on which single (ustacked) units moved, uncovering hidden terrain as they moved - fighting other units by moving into their square - units built one at a time in cities. In the GalCiv games, now the cities are called planets (as far back as CivII, there were mods that worked the same way - substuting planets for cities and otherwise changing the graphics to make it look like space). There is still one big map, with planets & stars directly on it (unlike most games that started life as interstellar 4X games). Playing the GalCiv games still feels like playing a gussied-up version of "Empire".

The SE games are in a similar sense descending from a board game called "Starfire". Although never a straight-up computer port of Starfire (plenty of differences exist at the detail level), nevertheless playing the SE games still feels like playing Starfire. All the action is within individual star systems, because interstellar movement is via "warp points" (like "wormholes") and ships literally can't be in between star systems. As a game system that started life as a space game, as opposed to a ground game system adapted to model space, the SE games seem to me to be more inherently fitting to the subject matter than the GalCiv games.

As an aside, I prefer even more the space 4X games descended from the board game "Stellar Conquest". However, there is nothing even remotely current using that system. The original "Master of Orion" did, as did at least two previous computer games in the 8-bit era. MOO2 was a hybrid, mixing the "Stellar Conquest" type of movement/exploration with Civ-style city (planet) management - resulting in the late game management overload typical of the Civ games. MOO3 didn't seem to be terribly related to anything else (storyline continued from the earlier MOO games excepted), and also seems to have killed the MOO franchise (unfortunately). So, the SE series seems to me to be the best space 4X system still kicking.

[onomastikon]

Hmn interesting, I see. I dont know Starfire, but the basic difference between the two sounds plausible and understandable. So in SEiv and SEv, there are tactical and strategic moves, one with engines and the other with warp technology, which is not easy to come by or limited to certain "lanes"? -- makes sense. I'll see if I can get my hands on a copy of SEiv to try it out. That must be possible over here in Germany, no? Any particular mods you people recommend for a beginner (but weathered TBSer) looking for good AI play?

thanks tons

[Fyron]

Ships have engines, which generate movement points. This movement rate is used to move X sectors (squares/hexes) on the system map in a turn. To move between systems, you move into a sector containing a warp point, then use a move point to warp into the sector in the connected system containing the other end of that warp point. Combat movement is based off of strategic movement. In SE4, it is related by the function floor((m + 1) / 2), aka divide by two and round up. In SE5, things get harrier, and the relation involves converting the move value into distance moved in each time increment (on the order of 50 ms or something).

[capnq]

onomastikon said: I'll see if I can get my hands on a copy of SEiv to try it out. That must be possible over here in Germany, no? Any particular mods you people recommend for a beginner (but weathered TBSer) looking for good AI play?

The premiere AI mod for SEIV is the TDM-ModPack. It improves the AI and adds a number of new races, but doesn't change the stock technology tree.

Another popular AI mod is AI Challenge (AIC). I haven't actually played that myself, but I believe it does make some changes to the tech tree.

[Fyron]

capnq said:
Another popular AI mod is AI Challenge (AIC). I haven't actually played that myself, but I believe it does make some changes to the tech tree.

As it is based off of Proportions 2, it makes quite a lot of changes to the tech tree.

[Caduceus]

The demo of Space Empires IV should still be available on the malfador web site, I would think.

[Renegade 13]

SEIV Demo Download Link

[Barnacle Bill]

onomastikon said:
Hmn interesting, I see. I dont know Starfire, but the basic difference between the two sounds plausible and understandable. So in SEiv and SEv, there are tactical and strategic moves, one with engines and the other with warp technology, which is not easy to come by or limited to certain "lanes"? -- makes sense. I'll see if I can get my hands on a copy of SEiv to try it out. That must be possible over here in Germany, no? Any particular mods you people recommend for a beginner (but weathered TBSer) looking for good AI play?

thanks tons

It has the effect of limiting strategic movement to certain lanes, but more... There have been several game systems (board or computer) that allowed movement only between certain star stystems. What both Starfire & the SE games do is additionally put you into a particular point within the star system you are entering. That has particular tactical ramifications - the defender knows exactly where to wait for you. An advantage of this is it gives the weaker side a better chance to basically take advantage of terrain and weapon ranges.

If you are familiar with David Weber's "Honor Harrington" novels, Weber has also written (with co-author Steve White)several novels set in the Starfire game background. Before making the big-time as a novelist, Weber was at one point the lead game designer for Starfire (and White was his successor), so there was always a symbiotic relationship between the game and the novels - Weber (and White) understood the game and envisioned technological developments and other events in terms meaningful to the game system, and the game designers (even after Weber & White had both moved on) felt compelled to support new concepts from the novels in game expansion products. You might find yourself inspired if you can hunt up these novels in Germany (if your English is up to it, they are probably available from Amazon UK).

As previously recommended, TDM is a must-have for SEIV. The equivalent for SEV is Unnamed's AI Mod. In SEV, a lot of folks swear by Captain Kwok's "Balance Mod" - Kwok was an SEV beta tester and in fact there is a movement petitioning the designer to adopt Balance Mod as the official version. However, Balance Mod makes some pretty big changes vs stock, where Unnamed just changes AI files.

There is a guy working on a mod to make SEV more Starfire-like as well.