Getting AAA to fire

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by Weasel

Ok, the bofors were not moving at all, had never fired from game start, and had been deployed for turns. So since most a/c chance to hit are around 2-5% I am best to assume that my AAA will never fire? I know in one game the only time my a/c got shot at was when they actually flew through a box of guns, but other then that nothing.

As for LOS; if my AAA is in the field, and there is a row of trees at the end of the field and the a/c come in in the hex row behind the trees is the game playing that the a/c are behind and below the trees? I fear this is what is happening, and if so that means his attacking a/c are flying at about 30 feet.

I usually set my stationary flak up on hills, and dot them about in sections or platoons of 2-3 to form an interlocking (or near enough) matrix over the rear zone. That way, most planes that attack into the rear will fly near enough to a cell of guns (20 hexes or less) to get shot at. Individual guns about 4-6 hexes apart from platoon CO in case arty gets directed at them.

I dont set them up in a "grand battery" very often as the planes would need to be guaranteed to come to that spot of the map. Unless playing MBT of course where the guns will have much better FC and RF values than WW2, AA radar even and so will pop off at air targets way aways - even right across the map at helos. Post-war 57mm Soviet radar directed AAA is rather nice to have, and can cause a helo using enemy fits .

I try to set them up in a "U" shaped box around my gun/moratar lines since the AI tends to get interested in attacking those.

SP-AA and any towed guns that I move forwards I deploy in a similar manner in the forward zone.

Inf-AAMG are useful to plod along behind the infantry coy HQs for local protection (and occasional ground target biffing up).

Trees, hills and built up zones will screen low flying planes from flak sitting on the flat. Putting them up on a little pimple with a good all round FOV usually cures that.

Cheers
Andy

[Imp]

As for LOS; if my AAA is in the field, and there is a row of trees at the end of the field and the a/c come in in the hex row behind the trees is the game playing that the a/c are behind and below the trees? I fear this is what is happening, and if so that means his attacking a/c are flying at about 30 feet

It all depends how close you are to the trees LOS obstacle.
If the obstacle is a reasonable distance away they will see the plane & fire.
The closer it is the less of the sky they can see.
Typical example if you are walking down a street you cannot see a lot of sky because the houses block it, the closer you move the less you can see.
Same in a field 500m from a copse of trees you can see a lot more sky than if you were 150m from it.
Also remember you have to track the aircraft to get a chance to hit it a breif view of it & you would miss

[DRG]

You do not tell us who you are playing as or when. All I know is there were Bofors involved and maybe AAMG's. IDK why people think not giving all relevant details is being helpful. There *MAY* be an OOB error that is causing the error. Knowing who and when goes a long way sort things like that out

Here's a save game. The player with the Bofors, as that is the only known weapon, is P1 and is Canadian. P2 the AI is German. The map is dead flat desert and the visibilty is 68. There will be an airstrike . Watch what happens. Press " Quit Orders" when the game loads


Don

[Weasel]

Originally Posted by Ironfist

Just a test. NOT when you really play it.

Understood, I meant I could replay the turn where the entire luftwaffe came in a few turns back and see if things change.

[Weasel]

Originally Posted by DRG

You do not tell us who you are playing as or when. All I know is there were Bofors involved and maybe AAMG's. IDK why people think not giving all relevant details is being helpful. There *MAY* be an OOB error that is causing the error. Knowing who and when goes a long way sort things like that out

Here's a save game. The player with the Bofors, as that is the only known weapon, is P1 and is Canadian. P2 the AI is German. The map is dead flat desert and the visibilty is 68. There will be an airstrike . Watch what happens. Press " Quit Orders" when the game loads


Don

Is not the bofors data used for all nations? You are saying that a Cdn bofors is different from a UK bofors?

It is UK vs Ger 1939. Bofors set up in an open field in a U shape, 6 guns. The field is about 10 hexes wide and 15-20 hexes long with a single row of trees outlining it. Vis to tree line is about 15-20 hexes, then there is a single row of trees and open terrain behind. A/C came in either on my side of the trees, on top of the trees, or the hex behind the trees. About 8 a/c came in with not a single shot being fired. Vis in game is 60+. Guns are stationary, have not moved for at least 3 turns. Unit xp/moral is 70s. Guns did not fire the turn before when a/c came in either, except for a single shot by a bofors I had just moved (I have 8 total, 6 not moving and 2 were moving more forward)and unlimbered that the a/c flew over. This bofors was surrounded by trees in a defile (using as infantry bashers since they were not doing much else). Range of shot was 2 hexes, no joy.

Do you need anything else?

In my games I have seen more shooting by tank AA-MG then by dedicated AAA.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Weasel

Is not the bofors data used for all nations? You are saying that a Cdn bofors is different from a UK bofors?

NO How did that get twisted around like that ? How do I know what nation you were using and what unit using what weapon if you don't tell us and we have to guess ? I said it *MAY* be an OOB error but how am I supposed to check that unless we know the details ???

Originally Posted by Weasel

It is UK vs Ger 1939. Bofors set up in an open field in a U shape, 6 guns. The field is about 10 hexes wide and 15-20 hexes long with a single row of trees outlining it. Vis to tree line is about 15-20 hexes, then there is a single row of trees and open terrain behind. A/C came in either on my side of the trees, on top of the trees, or the hex behind the trees. About 8 a/c came in with not a single shot being fired. Vis in game is 60+. Guns are stationary, have not moved for at least 3 turns. Unit xp/moral is 70s. Guns did not fire the turn before when a/c came in either, except for a single shot by a bofors I had just moved (I have 8 total, 6 not moving and 2 were moving more forward)and unlimbered that the a/c flew over. This bofors was surrounded by trees in a defile (using as infantry bashers since they were not doing much else). Range of shot was 2 hexes, no joy.

Do you need anything else?

Yeah, what we tell everyone over and over-- how about a save game so we can actually see it.

If you ran my save you will see Bofors firing at aircraft and there is NO difference in the weapons stats between the Brit and CDN OOB's for that weapon

Don

[Weasel]

Well I ran the same turn over again and this time my AAA fired 4 times at 3 different a/c. What the difference was I don't know; but I will end this thread here as asking questions only seems to infuriate the powers that be.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Weasel

Well I ran the same turn over again and this time my AAA fired 4 times at 3 different a/c. What the difference was I don't know; but I will end this thread here as asking questions only seems to infuriate the powers that be.

Keep taking that attitude and you'll be permanently ignored. I'm trying to sort out an issue with zip all real information until it was extracted bit by bit. We are quit willing to investigate and fix real problems but we need all the information to do that. I have NO idea why they would fire the second time around and not the first. The first thing that springs to mind is the first time *perhaps* you had run a number of other applications before or during game play and that interfered with the game in some way and the second time it was a fresh boot. IDK, only you can answer that but you're the first one to complain AA wasn't firing and both Andy and I were doing out best to sort it out for you

Don

[Weasel]

Originally Posted by DRG

Keep taking that attitude and you'll be permanently ignored. I'm trying to sort out an issue with zip all real information until it was extracted bit by bit. We are quit willing to investigate and fix real problems but we need all the information to do that. I have NO idea why they would fire the second time around and not the first. The first thing that springs to mind is the first time *perhaps* you had run a number of other applications before or during game play and that interfered with the game in some way and the second time it was a fresh boot. IDK, only you can answer that but you're the first one to complain AA wasn't firing and both Andy and I were doing out best to sort it out for you

Don

Well I have been trying to delete my forum account but do not see that option under CP and no one has replied to my post.

I was asking a question, not complaining but it is viewed as such . I am not the only one who has been scratching their heads, and it is not just a single country or weapon. I was asking so I could let the guys at the blitz whom I play and have found the same thing so they know what is up.

So as soon as someone responds to my post on the main forum..................

[Weasel]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

I usually set my stationary flak up on hills, and dot them about in sections or platoons of 2-3 to form an interlocking (or near enough) matrix over the rear zone. That way, most planes that attack into the rear will fly near enough to a cell of guns (20 hexes or less) to get shot at. Individual guns about 4-6 hexes apart from platoon CO in case arty gets directed at them.

I dont set them up in a "grand battery" very often as the planes would need to be guaranteed to come to that spot of the map. Unless playing MBT of course where the guns will have much better FC and RF values than WW2, AA radar even and so will pop off at air targets way aways - even right across the map at helos. Post-war 57mm Soviet radar directed AAA is rather nice to have, and can cause a helo using enemy fits .

I try to set them up in a "U" shaped box around my gun/moratar lines since the AI tends to get interested in attacking those.

SP-AA and any towed guns that I move forwards I deploy in a similar manner in the forward zone.

Inf-AAMG are useful to plod along behind the infantry coy HQs for local protection (and occasional ground target biffing up).

Trees, hills and built up zones will screen low flying planes from flak sitting on the flat. Putting them up on a little pimple with a good all round FOV usually cures that.

Cheers
Andy

This is what I posted at THE BLITZ:

"Ok, after many emails to me, and frustration on my part too, I asked the designing powers at Shrapnel how exactly the AAA routine works in winspww2. The reply from Mobhack was educating, and instead of replying to each person whom asked individually I am posting here.

First off: IGNORE the max range on AAA for engaging a/c, it means basically nothing. AAA will normally only engage out to about a range of 20 hexes max; now you may get the odd long shot, but all in all the a/c must fly closer then 20 hexes to the AAA unit to be engaged and have a chance of being hit. Consider the 20 hexes the maximum range. What does this mean? AAA must be deployed close to the units you want to protect. The days of setting your guns on a hill top and hoping they might engage a/c attacking your artillery 22 hexes away is over. My suggestion and as mentioned by Mobhack: set your guns into a U shape near the vital target with about 4-6 hexes between tubes.

Second: SPAA - this AAA is basically only good for very close in a/c attacks, within 8-10 hexes of the target maximum. In my experience it only engages a/c within 5 hexes. So ensure one unit is always stationary near the target (best not to have moved the turn before also) while the other is moving up to the next position; think over watch.

Thanks to Mobhack (Andy) for providing detail on the AAA routines."