Unsupported tanks behind enemy lines

[hoplitis]

Originally Posted by Lt. Ketch

...
Any additional thoughts, or do I just need to learn the dreaded patience?

Yeap!!!
( Patience grasshopper
It's not just a game. It's a character builder! !!!
The proper thing to do is plan your advance/assault with the "constraint" that 1/3 or 1/4 of your force will be in "reserve mode" either to exploit gaps in the frontline, flanking etc OR reinforce an attack that has gotten bogged down OR dealing with an aggressive counter attack.
This practically means that a sizeable chunk of your forces must not be commited until midgame! And that takes alot of character indeed!

[RERomine]

Originally Posted by Lt. Ketch

RERomine, I am hesitant of mounted units, but more because I need to work on my tactics with them than any ineffeciency on their part. I don't expect loses when I send in unsupported tanks - it's a given. I don't like losing any units, but I can definatly see the advantage of a support HT being sacrificed for the "greater good." Thanks.

Just for sake of clarity, I typically don't raid into the enemy rear area. I move my whole core into their rear. Support units punch a hole and core elements exploit the gap, leaving nothing in my own rear area. The enemy is welcome to take it and search for something to engage. I've seen the AI with units cruising along my back edge and finding nothing. This is only works if I'm advancing or assaulting and I would never try it against a person.

[gila]

Originally Posted by RERomine

Just for sake of clarity, I typically don't raid into the enemy rear area. I move my whole core into their rear. Support units punch a hole and core elements exploit the gap, leaving nothing in my own rear area. The enemy is welcome to take it and search for something to engage. I've seen the AI with units cruising along my back edge and finding nothing. This is only works if I'm advancing or assaulting and I would never try it against a person.

Should try it sometime RER,Strategy! Rommel always used his army and panzer's for the "go for broke" flanking maneuver and it worked! until Hitler bleeded him dry for his Russian campaign.

[Cross]

Thanks for the compliment Imp.

I must admit I haven't played much against the AI for several years, and when I do I don't take it too seriously. Having far too much fun PBEM.

Human opponents start to get predictable. I don't mean in boring way, no not at all, but predictable in a fascinating way. It reminds me of what I've often read in WWII books about how experienced troops could often tell what the enemies response was likely to be.

For example: In my current battle I placed an anti-tank gun in a building with a good field of fire towards a likely enemy approach. Sure enough a scout vehicle trundles towards the ATG and gets brewed up with one shot.

Now I'm quite sure my opponent didn't 'spot' my ATG, but I'm also quite sure that he's guessed what building it's in, and I figured his likely response would be an artillery stonk.

So I quickly loaded up the ATG to its nearby carrier and moved it down the road a few hundred yards to set up somewhere else. Sure enough, a couple of turns later and 12cm rounds are falling all over the vacated building.

Am I worried he may read this post? Not really, he may figure it's deliberate mis-information and I'm just trying to get him to prematurely call of his artillery strike.

Love this game.

[Marcello]

In SPWAW I sometimes used a mixture of BT-7s and motorcycle infantry against the AI to raid the enemy rear. A motorcyle platoon would probe the front to see if the area I had chosen for the crossing was not too heavily defended, looking for ATGs in particular. Then if positive I would rush in the tanks and the remaining motorcycles. Once in the rear the motorcycles would look for artillery and such, which the tanks would then blast into oblivion. Tanks would also help the motorcycles against MGs and such they ran into.
Great fun, though probably not cost effective at all.

[m113apc]

For those of that are interested in military tactic and history the "Schwerpunkt" are the way I do it.

Punch a hole in the enemy line and poor through with your units.

[Cross]

Originally Posted by m113apc

For those of that are interested in military tactic and history the "Schwerpunkt" are the way I do it.

Punch a hole in the enemy line and poor through with your units.

From a defensive standpoint, this is where the 'second line of defense' comes in. This was often built around anti-tank guns, which is the problem that the OP is running into.

It sounds like Andy has programmed the AI to use this defense so some extent.

The idea is that your second line of defense will hold up the breakthrough long enough to allow you to bring in reinforcements to contain the problem.

[Imp]

It sounds like Andy has programmed the AI to use this defense so some extent.

Quite a lot actually make the rookie mistake of chasing running units at your peril. You need to scout & give chase not just charge as running into range of a group of 6-10 guns is not uncommon meaning you can lose much more than you gain.
Can be more problamatic than most humans as they tend to commit everything forgetting about defence in depth.

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by Imp

Quite a lot actually make the rookie mistake of chasing running units at your peril. You need to scout & give chase not just charge as running into range of a group of 6-10 guns is not uncommon meaning you can lose much more than you gain.
Can be more problamatic than most humans as they tend to commit everything forgetting about defence in depth.

The AI is willing to have defensive units deployed and leave them there, whereas a human often cannot stop himself moving things about for the sake of it. Soon, everything is committed or at least out of place.

It is therefore vital to have an uncommitted reserve, especially in PBEM games against another human.

This one is already in the "Military Quotations" section of the GG, which every player should read from time to time, since there are pearls of wisdom in those:

"He, general or mere captain, who employs every one in the storming of a position can be sure of seeing it retaken by an organised counter-attack of four men and a corporal.", Colonel Ardant du Picq

Andy

[Imp]

I must admit Andy having not played the AI for quite a while the routines you have set up for deployment tend to be very good. Reckless charging about will get you killed, it occasionaly deploys tanks or fortifications without adequate covering forces but this is not the norm. Generaly it manages to set up some good little killing "nests" & the odd little surprise, top marks.

You are right about humans I am prone to it on occasion moving something thats waiting to spring a surprise because its just sitting there. Normally to find 2 turns later I am rushing it back but of course its to late now so it spends the rest of the game chasing its tail.
Makes me laugh when I do it as imagine them swearing at their inept commander issuing new orders every 5 minutes.