Don't Feel Sorry For The AI

[Charles22]

Originally Posted by Lt. Ketch

My experience has been that the more units you have the slower they get experience.

Now I openly acknowledge that I do not know all the ways that units can get experience and so could be completely off. An example. There are three enemy units and the potential expereinced that can be gained by defeating them is 100 points. If I attack each unit with three of my own, then that 100 points gets spilt between 9 units, where as if I use the same three units to defeat all three of them, it will boost them up higher quicker. I realize that if you face an enemy that outnumbers yours, this logic doesn't apply nearly as much because ALL of you units will be wading through troops and gaining experience.

I also realize that if you put all your eggs in one basket, or exp into one platoon, a well placed artillary barrage will destory all your work. So I believe I can understand what you're looking to accomplish. A experienced but not intirely unexpendable force. You mentioned cutting back in France, do you indent to delete your losest experienced units?

Back on topic - I never feel sorry for the AI. Don and Andy have created a very good warmind that I only have the upmost respect for. As I get better I may end up beating it more often and easier, but I hope I never underestimate it.

I can't make heads or tails of your observation. I can't see how 3 units attacking in any form would split 9 ways experience gain. It either goes to the unit delivering the final blow, as kills do, or they split up equally between the three. If what you are saying is that with a army of 9 units, ALL experience gains always goes to all of them, and that therefore an entire army of only three units would be bigger experience gains, that is correct math, but you forgot a huge part of the equation.

If I understand you correctly, I do not think you are correct, but let me continue as though you are. In this last game, we know I had 93 AFV kills, so obviously 93 experience gains (that is if every kill is an experience gain of some sort) were the minimum possible expereince gained. If you had 3 units, well look at all the experience you would gain compared to a greater number of units, right? Problem is, you will never get 93 kills with either 3 or 9 units. As well, if you get 9 kills with 9 units, and I get 93 kills with 92 units, then I come off better than you per unit experience gain.

Now, perhaps there has been a detailed explanation of how experience gains, be that in the manual or not, and for my part, I just get as many kills as possible and hope that helps. However, there are plenty of units that don't even have a kill that gain more than the ones with numerous kills. Also, there are units who seem to have not fired a single round, whom advance as well (if so, that would destroy the notion that guns fired, even with no kills, would gain experience alone - not that anyone has that theory).

You mentioned cutting back in France, do you indent to delete your losest experienced units?

Hmmm, you do give me interesting food for thought. I had never considered that. But I don't think it ever pays off. for example: a PZIVB gets destroyed last battle in Poland and I replace it with another. Suppose the new unit comes in with 60 exp. I could gamble points away after that first battle in France, assuming this unit survives, and then buy another tank in the hopes of maybe getting a 75exp crew.

Otherwise, I don't see any point in deleting any. As well, I have not a lot of idea about how exp is gained, but I can tell you that number of kills can matter, and that units gain them without even firing a round. Inevitably, even if you are and I are totally blind to how they gain exp, they will, because if what I just said is true, they will all be flagged for gain before long. If you have a unit in that army for say 4 battles, the chances of him being of higher exp than the highest rated new unit of the same type is very high. In truth, ALL surviving units may gain exp, but inbetween battles we only are aware (onscreen at the top left) of the ones who gained in experience type, like experienced to elite. If one keeps a log of each units ranking one would find out quick enough if all survivors gain exp of some amount.

[Lt. Ketch]

I’m sorry if it was unclear on a couple of things.
Number 1.

Originally Posted by Charles22

I can't make heads or tails of your observation. I can't see how 3 units attacking in any form would split 9 ways experience gain.

Originally Posted by Lt. Ketch

If I attack each unit with three of my own

meaning that I have three units for every one unit of the enemy. 3 enemies X 3 units of mine = 9 total of mine units.

Number 2.

Originally Posted by Lt. Ketch

You mentioned cutting back in France, do you indent to delete your lowest experienced units?(spelling fixed)

I made this comment based on the your comment, quoted below.

Originally Posted by Charles22

I'm not interested in keeping my core smaller until France.

I was curious about how you decide to make your core smaller. I appeared to me that you might start with a large core, see who gets the most experience over the course of several battles and then delete the formations that did not progress. This would leave you with a selection of the most experienced units to take into France. If you have no desire to subtract units from your core, the misunderstanding is all mine.

Thank you for your comments. As I mentioned before, I don’t know all the ways that units get experience. What I do know is that units receive experience for moving, shooting and killing, and thanks to Andy, being in the core. My thought was this – if you have a large number of units in your core, some of them may not do as much moving, shooting and killing as others and consequently gain little experience. If those units didn’t exist (i.e. do to a smaller core), the experience they WOULD HAVE gained by moving, shooting and killing might end up going to other units, increasing their experience further then it might have been otherwise. I believe that my biggest mistake in understanding experience is that I subconsciously thought that there was a finite amount of experience in any given battle. If that were the case, then the more units you have, the less experience they could get. Since this is not the case, I stand corrected.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Charles22

What did the AI pick? 60 75mm guns, only four of which were onboard. There was some other artillery but I didn't bother counting them.

The guns are what mostly gets me here, as having that many guns going off gets to be a real nuisance irrespective of what damage it may cause, but this battle also rather epitomized how lopsided things can often get in favor of the AI. In most situations at this close range (7 max) my AFV's would very often not hit on the first shot (probably 80% misses), while the Polish ones did, often destroying, with something close to a 50% ratio. For a couple of times I noticed the percentage on one of my tanks,

EVERY year the AI hands a player a hard time it's "suggested" the AI has an advantage. It's a regular event right along with us saying it doesn't get one so I won't bother saying it again

So, the AI picked 60 guns. Is there a save game ?? We always ask so is there one ? Without a save game so we can see what the AI picked and where on the pick list it was chosen we couldn't possibly guess what may or may not have gone on or if perhaps there is a problem with the way the pick is coded. The picklist for the AI is set up so there are always random variables otherwise it would be the same thing over and over and over and over and sometimes, as "luck" would have it, there may be the computer equivalent of rolling snake-eyes three or four times in a row and the little bits of code in the picklist that says...... "Buy this or that or in 10 chances out of 99 buy this AND that just to keep people on their toes" kicks in and then seemingly odd things happen


A save game of that 60 gun game would be nice to see


Don

[Mobryan]

Originally Posted by DRG

"Buy this or that or in 10 chances out of 99 buy this AND that just to keep people on their toes" kicks in and then seemingly odd things happen

Which is one of the really neat things about this game, it's nearly as unpredictable as real life is, and I'm glad for it.



Matt

[Imp]

Ramm
Not everyone plays this game for historical accuracy/battle simulation and that is perfectly OK in my opinion. Some people play to win with no holds barred including being gamey. Imp, you have progressed to the point you are not interested solely in winning but rather in having a good time while by being historical, give others a chance to reach your level and you will be amazed how their viewpoint changes.

What I was trying to say is you guys are getting bogged down in the fine details probably spending ages trying to pick the best force you can. Why not pick what you fancy playing with historical or not & yes I do normally go roughly historical because its an all threats force though just been playing with SAS & dune buggies for a laugh.
Yes a totaly duff force purchase will cause problems but so long as your armour can destroy his you should be okay. Improving your tactics by playing the game will pay far more dividends than spending time deciding whether to buy regular troops or marines etc & not buying the same force all the time will help further.

[Charles22]

Originally Posted by DRG

EVERY year the AI hands a player a hard time it's "suggested" the AI has an advantage. It's a regular event right along with us saying it doesn't get one so I won't bother saying it again

So, the AI picked 60 guns. Is there a save game ?? We always ask so is there one ? Without a save game so we can see what the AI picked and where on the pick list it was chosen we couldn't possibly guess what may or may not have gone on or if perhaps there is a problem with the way the pick is coded. The picklist for the AI is set up so there are always random variables otherwise it would be the same thing over and over and over and over and sometimes, as "luck" would have it, there may be the computer equivalent of rolling snake-eyes three or four times in a row and the little bits of code in the picklist that says...... "Buy this or that or in 10 chances out of 99 buy this AND that just to keep people on their toes" kicks in and then seemingly odd things happen


A save game of that 60 gun game would be nice to see


Don

Despite what it may had sounded like, as I suppose I didn't express myself as clearly as I ought to had done, I wasn't saying the game was defective, so why would I save the game and post it? It was more an observation than anything and an attempt to convince people that the AI can indeed seemingly rip you off. IOW, don't have mercy on it, because it 'can' rip you off, even if it's just a matter of getting boatloads of random odds against you; which is perhaps unlike most battles.

Despite how much time has passed since when I posted the thread, well yes, I do still have a save towards the end of the game. Only problem is I can't find it on my computer (but can in the game). If you really want to see it, telling me how to translate what I see on the 'load game list' screen would be helpful so I can find the file on the computer. I have looked for every single bit of data on my entire computer that shows on that screen, and nothing comes of these searches.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Charles22

If you really want to see it, telling me how to translate what I see on the 'load game list' screen would be helpful so I can find the file on the computer. I have looked for every single bit of data on my entire computer that shows on that screen, and nothing comes of these searches.

OK, Let's assume it shows you have this save game in save slot 11

Go to the

WinsSPWW2\Saved Games

folder and look for ..........

SpSv011.cmt
SpSv011.dat

Zip them up and post them

Don

[Charles22]

Originally Posted by DRG

OK, Let's assume it shows you have this save game in save slot 11

Go to the

WinsSPWW2\Saved Games

folder and look for ..........

SpSv011.cmt
SpSv011.dat

Zip them up and post them

Don

Still not there. For some reason I cannot manage a screenshot either. I thought it was alt-Pr Sc (Vista) but I have nothing to paste into anything should it had gone to the clipboard. I can, however, tell you the path the saved games folder took and what is in it:

OS (C: )/program files/shrapnel games/the camo workshop/winsppw2/saved games

It has only two files, one called 1-info and another called spsv000.cmt. I did a search on spsv* from the shrapnel folder after I found that out and the one I just listed is the only one, yet all the saves are still in the game and work.

[Double_Deuce]

Originally Posted by Charles22

Still not there. For some reason I cannot manage a screenshot either. I thought it was alt-Pr Sc (Vista) but I have nothing to paste into anything should it had gone to the clipboard. I can, however, tell you the path the saved games folder took and what is in it:

OS (C: )/program files/shrapnel games/the camo workshop/winsppw2/saved games

It has only two files, one called 1-info and another called spsv000.cmt. I did a search on spsv* from the shrapnel folder after I found that out and the one I just listed is the only one, yet all the saves are still in the game and work.

Try looking for them in the following directory (it may not be exactly accurate as I do not know how your computer is set up):

C:\Users\yourcomputername\AppData\Local\VirtualSto re\program files\shrapnel games\the camo workshop\winsppw2\saved games

You may have to search the VirtualStore Folder and then drill down in there.

[Ziploc]

Whilst I don't feel sorry for the AI as it will, in cold blood, slaughter your best units if given half a chance (bye bye Jagdpanzer IV and 105mm Howitzer Stug to US 57mm ATG and Bazooka respectively), however I do feel sorry for it's digital soldiers and wish the AI would encourage them to spread out a bit more!