Suppression

[gila]

Originally Posted by Warmonger

1. A unit with no current suppression moved a hex, took one shot and fell back. When examined it had a suppression of 99!

2. A different unit with current suppression of 1 moved 3 hexes then got fired at by six units for a total of 14 shots. When examined the unit still had a suppression of 1.

The experience level of both units was between 70 and 75.

He gives 2 examples,i suspect the first was wandering around aimlessly and "out of contact" of leaders.

The second appears to been "in contact" and did much better.

I could see conscipts or any low morale unit go into max supp. with one shot (although very rarely) as in the first case

[Griefbringer]

There are also some attacks that cause more suppression than usual - flame weapons tend to be particularly nasty on this aspect. That said, they also tended to have rather scary morale effect in the real WWII too.

[DRG]

NO... suppression is NOT determined strictly by random factors. Did I not say as much in post #2 ?

It involves your units experience, morale, the leadership qualities of the officer or NCO in change along with the distance the shots came because point blank fire has higher effects and it involves the speed the unit was moving when attacked and how many times it's been rallied. ALL that and more goes into calculation suppression and on top of that we introduce random factors to ensure the game does not become predictable. However, if all you do is judge the game by extraordinary examples that creates an skewed view of the game and how it works and next thing we know we are being asked if "suppression is determined strictly by random factors " but YES, if you play the game long enough you will see things like units taking more suppression than normal with fewer shots that normal and THAT'S NORMAL -------the random factors are there so the game isn't ...." OK he shot at me three times and hit once so I get 8 points of suppression"...... so YES, you may even see a case where "1000 rounds are fired at a unit in a hex the results might be the same as if 10 rounds were fired" even though this is a gross exaggeration of what happens in the game because 99 is the max you can suppress and after that nothing accumulates.

I guess my problem here is I cannot understand why you cannot understand why the game needs to occasionally give unpredictable results but it would seem in this case that others might have a better chance at explaining this but I will ask this..... was WaW really THAT predictable when it came to combat results ?

Don

[Warmonger]

Originally Posted by DRG

I guess my problem here is I cannot understand why you cannot understand why the game needs to occasionally give unpredictable results but it would seem in this case that others might have a better chance at explaining this but I will ask this..... was WaW really THAT predictable when it came to combat results ?

Don

On the contrary, I understand and agree with having unpredictable results. My problem is with extreme results not commensurate with the effort expended. One shot shouldn't take a unit out of action for the remainder of the scenario. Maybe if the unit was green, but this was a unit with experience in the 70's. In the other case you had two platoons open up on a unit with everything they had and it got no suppression. Heck, even if they were all firing into the air, the racket alone would have made the unit duck.

[runequester]

Bear in mind that outlier results don't determine a trend.

Yeah, sometimes a unit can be paralyzed from one or two casualties but it happens quite rarely.
Yeah, sometimes a unit can seem to ignore volleys of machine gun fire. It also happens quite rarely.


By and large, low experience/morale units will bail a lot, while high experience/morale troops will be very resilient. Do a 1941/42 game of americans vs japanese to view the difference, or 41 soviet vs german.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Warmonger

[ One shot shouldn't take a unit out of action for the remainder of the scenario.

Really ? One shot took a unit out for the entire scenario ???

Really ?

One shot ??

Please do post it.

We would ALL like to see that save game.


Don