Question: In Contact determination

[RetLT]

I guess the next logical question is if it is better for your B0 to be a forward observer or if B0 should be a combat unit,

Does it make a difference what formation the Forward observer is attached too or is it his arty skill level that determines how quickly he can call in fire?

Also, is there any benefit to having more that one HQ type unit?

Scorpio: I love "Hide with pride"

[scorpio_rocks]

My understanding is you cannot have more than 1 HQ-type unit.

and yes it is skill levels of observer that determines how long call takes. I don't believe it matters to which formation he is attached (I usually have observer independent and at B0 as easier to find)

[Mobhack]

If you buy an FOO as the first thing, then as B0 its the easiest thing to find it on the HQ lists as it is right in your face under A0. So I always buy my observer as item No. 1. So no paging through lists of stuff to find that observer that you tacked onto some company or other.

Arty skill and experience is what an FOO needs for fast calling. Experience comes from surviving battles and any kills he personally makes - arty experience from calling fires. Don't bother attaching an FOO unit to anything. Just buy one as B0 and let him do his thing.

[Imp]

Originally Posted by RetLT

I guess the next logical question is if it is better for your B0 to be a forward observer or if B0 should be a combat unit,

Does it make a difference what formation the Forward observer is attached too or is it his arty skill level that determines how quickly he can call in fire?

Also, is there any benefit to having more that one HQ type unit?

Scorpio: I love "Hide with pride"

1 HQ unit keep him out of the way at the back on rough or similar, possibly with a decent LOS. Watch a flank from a distance to protect your arty park is my ideal location.

2 Order you buy company/units makes no difference HQ is never replaced.
FOOs as second unit or last makes finding them easy.

3 If really want could avoid buying Company's with a weak second unit like a MG mortar rather than a squad. As I understand it these get promoted if company commander dies.


4 Some people seem to go in depth with this but in fact its quite simple.

To maintain good morale and rally status the order for keeping units out of trouble and unsuppressed is straightforward.
1) HQ - rally any unit
2) Company Commander - rally any unit in company.
3) Squad / section leader - rally any unit in that squad/ section.
4) Every body else just rally themselves so they are the ones that should take most of the fire as there are 3 people above them that can help rally them.
1+2 should stay out of trouble and 3 should do its best to do so.

[RightDeve]

Runners.
Might as well be birds, or some superstitious telepathic signals.
Yes, I tested it numerous times, even with a unit isolated with waters, no radios, no LOS toward friendlies, and surrounded by the enemy. 7 chance out of 10 it was still in contact with parent, and 100% chance in contact if it's an x0 unit (Platoon leader etc).

I get it Andy you're getting bored and lazy fixing up the codes, especially something not as game breaking as this one.

But please don't justify it as a "game feature", runners my ***.

[Felix Nephthys]

Originally Posted by RightDeve

Runners.
Might as well be birds, or some superstitious telepathic signals.
Yes, I tested it numerous times, even with a unit isolated with waters, no radios, no LOS toward friendlies, and surrounded by the enemy. 7 chance out of 10 it was still in contact with parent, and 100% chance in contact if it's an x0 unit (Platoon leader etc).

I get it Andy you're getting bored and lazy fixing up the codes, especially something not as game breaking as this one.

But please don't justify it as a "game feature", runners my ***.

I think the concept of "runners" described here is simply to visualize how the CHQ link works without radio contact. On page 31 of the SP1 manual (http://jlvignaud.free.fr/sp/sp1/sp.pdf) and on page 37 of the SP2 manual (https://dl.myabandonware.com/f/ln4/S...ual_DOS_EN.pdf) it says,

If the
unit carries a radio it is never out of command control; otherwise, it loses contact with
the formation unit HQ if it is farther than five hexes away, or if it loses visual contact.

Now what this would mean is that if you are using the full reality setting with the Command button set to On in your Preferences (which I personally set to off, but that's just how I like to play) is that without a radio your contact status at more than 5 hexes from a command unit is largely dependent upon terrain and whatever the visibility setting is for the particular battle you are playing at the time. Also, never forget that on top of that is simply a roll of the dice by the program itself. Think of it as rolling a D20 and even through it all your particular unit somehow managed to maintain some kind of contact whereas another unit just rolled a 1 on the same D20 and is now royally ****ed in that respect. So with that in mind you can call it whatever you like, runners, smoke signals, telepathy, etc. but the fact of the matter is that it's not game breaking and has been this way since the original game came out.

[Felix Nephthys]

Originally Posted by Imp

1 HQ unit keep him out of the way at the back on rough or similar, possibly with a decent LOS. Watch a flank from a distance to protect your arty park is my ideal location.

2 Order you buy company/units makes no difference HQ is never replaced.
FOOs as second unit or last makes finding them easy.

3 If really want could avoid buying Company's with a weak second unit like a MG mortar rather than a squad. As I understand it these get promoted if company commander dies.


4 Some people seem to go in depth with this but in fact its quite simple.

To maintain good morale and rally status the order for keeping units out of trouble and unsuppressed is straightforward.
1) HQ - rally any unit
2) Company Commander - rally any unit in company.
3) Squad / section leader - rally any unit in that squad/ section.
4) Every body else just rally themselves so they are the ones that should take most of the fire as there are 3 people above them that can help rally them.
1+2 should stay out of trouble and 3 should do its best to do so.

I hate to say it, but the A0 unit can only rally some units on the map, not all (unless you are not using any companies, in which case then I would agree that the A0 could then rally any unit on the map). The way I understand it is that any given unit will not receive more than 3 opportunities to rally in the command chain provided all the command units are within 5 hexes of the unit to be rallied. So with the command structure below...

A0

B0 (company commander)
B1
B2
B3

C0 (platoon leader under the command of B0)
C1
C2
C3

D0 (platoon leader independent of B0 and directly under command of A0)
D1
D2
D3

then if B3 was to be rallied it could be rallied by itself, B0, or A0. However, if C3 was to be rallied then it would be rallied by itself, C0, or B0, but not the A0 unit. Also, if D3 was to be rallied then it would be rallied by itself, D0, or A0 since it falls directly under the A0's command.

[Felix Nephthys]

The only changes I could see that could possibly be made would be to completely remove the "dice roll" from being in contact. Make sure the program gives a radio to at least ALL x0 units (NO randomness/NO exceptions), and make sure that if any unit has a radio then it is ALWAYS in contact with their next higher x0 unit. If any other unit (not an x0 unit) does not have a radio (and their chances of receiving a radio would still be subject to the same "dice roll" as it is now) then contact with their higher x0 unit would be strictly based on whether they are more than 5 hexes away and LOS was maintained, NO randomness factor (More than 5 hexes away with LOS, contact is maintained. More than 5 hexes away and no LOS, then no contact. 5 or less hexes and no LOS, then no contact. 5 or less hexes with LOS, then contact is maintained. Basically it boils down to "No LOS, no contact"). I of course don't know what all this work would entail though. As for rallying units with the A0 unit, the code could possibly be changed to allow the A0 unit to rally ALL units, not just the ones directly under it's command. Once again, not sure what kind of work that would entail.

[Imp]

Okay that's wrong maybe this is why people get so involved with it lets put it another way.

1) HQ can rally any unit on the map regardless of who it is attached to.
2) Company Commander can rally anyone attached to its company.
3) Squad/Unit Commander can rally anyone in its squad/unit.
4) Every other unit (not a 0) can only rally its self.


So Your example
DO can rally anyone in D
CO can rally anyone in C
BO can rally anyone in B plus anyone in C and D as he is company commander.
AO can rally everyone.

B is the worst platoon because it has no separate company commander so he has to do double duty looking after his squad and the company. Only A0 and BO can help them where as C and D can be helped by AO, BO and there respective commander.

Simple once you get it and why you should cross attach extras like ATGM teams to get the extra rally from the company commander.

Therefore doing something dangerous like clearing mines.
Company commander should stay back in an attempt to avoid expected artillery.
4 Squad platoon I would keep that commander back to, 3 its tricky depends on circumstance.
Company and squad commander are now hopefully in good order so do not need to rally themselves which they do first so can help the grunts who as I said should take most of the heat.
Applies most cases taking a fortification for example Platoon commander could rally a squad from pinned status letting it move adjacent if its stayed out of trouble. Rally the squad then if need be draw the last fire with the Platoon leader as an example.

[Felix Nephthys]

Originally Posted by Imp

Okay that's wrong maybe this is why people get so involved with it lets put it another way.

1) HQ can rally any unit on the map regardless of who it is attached to.
2) Company Commander can rally anyone attached to its company.
3) Squad/Unit Commander can rally anyone in its squad/unit.
4) Every other unit (not a 0) can only rally its self.


So Your example
DO can rally anyone in D
CO can rally anyone in C
BO can rally anyone in B plus anyone in C and D as he is company commander.
AO can rally everyone.

B is the worst platoon because it has no separate company commander so he has to do double duty looking after his squad and the company. Only A0 and BO can help them where as C and D can be helped by AO, BO and there respective commander.

Simple once you get it and why you should cross attach extras like ATGM teams to get the extra rally from the company commander.

Therefore doing something dangerous like clearing mines.
Company commander should stay back in an attempt to avoid expected artillery.
4 Squad platoon I would keep that commander back to, 3 its tricky depends on circumstance.
Company and squad commander are now hopefully in good order so do not need to rally themselves which they do first so can help the grunts who as I said should take most of the heat.
Applies most cases taking a fortification for example Platoon commander could rally a squad from pinned status letting it move adjacent if its stayed out of trouble. Rally the squad then if need be draw the last fire with the Platoon leader as an example.

Please try and rally unit C0 in my saved game here and you will see that I'm right in what I have been saying, the A0 unit cannot rally EVERY unit on the map, only the ones in units DIRECTLY under it's command as listed in it's command structure in the HQ screen.