Formations, Strategies, Etc. -- The ***** List

[Mephisto]

[quote]Originally posted by Grandpakim:
To you modders: Its great that you want to improve the game by modding, but how about we get the unmodded game fixed first.

Well, to be immodestly, in my AI testing I found many things that need/ed fixing and many of "my" suggestions even made it into patches (for example the AI_unit.txt). But Aaron can only do so much in his time and some things will just have to wait for SE5.

Formations! Formations are just barely moddable, and just barely work.

Yea, but one can live without them. But you are right.

The entire fleet went after the planet, the satellites and the two bases with a vengeance!

For a blockade use the "capture planet" strategy and "don't break formation". Works wonders and the ships will not bomb the planet.

Here's a cute one, and not really a bug at all. I call it the "First Player Disadvantage". In any simul game, player no. l moves first. To be sure this can often be an advantage, but try chasing down a fleet moving the same speed as yours. Your fleet moves onto his fleet... and his fleet IMMEDIATELY moves away with NO BATTLE resulting. So, your fleet then moves onto his fleet and his fleet again immediately moves away. You can keep this up for a thousand years and never catch the bugger.

There is no difference if you are flying into sector A and the enemy is leaving sector A right after you have entered it or if the enemy leaves sector A just before you move into sector A. Or is there? I cannot see the problem here.

"Combat occurs every five days."

Each month is separated into 30 days. These 30 days are divided by your movement points. The result is the day of the month you will move on.

30 days
6 movement points
Result: Movement every 5 days

30 days
10 movement points
Result: Movement every 3 days

Quite simple and quite realistic. It's the same system "Star Fleet Battles" uses.

I have seen too many examples of opposing ships/fleets sitting in the same sector for a turn or two and not fight at all beyond the initial battle.[QB]

Because you will only fight a battle if you are called to move.

[QB]There should be an easy way to group fighters.

I totally agree on this one but we won't see it in SE4 IMHO.

Well, I think I've stirred up enough sh** for one day. And I'm sure I'll get lambasted for this bit of nastiness. Go ahead, do your worst. I do believe I'm ready to defend my views.

We can talk about anything as long as one has a valid point (isn't trolling) to argue about. So why should we flame you?

[Dogberry]

IMHO .. if the placement of ships within a formation becomes more sophisticated..it should still adhere to some simple principles and variations thereof.

That is, heavies to the front & or center, lights to the flank, ancillaries & auxillaries to the rear. You can theoretically play with this a bit with such old historical formations such as "echelon left or right" .. or refuse flank .

Again, just my .02 cents.

Dog

[Alpha Kodiak]

Originally posted by Grandpakim:
To you modders: Its great that you want to improve the game by modding, but how about we get the unmodded game fixed first. Had your energies been devoted to this, by your own modding but mostly by contacting Aaron and pointing out the flaws, I wouldn't be writing this.

First, Aaron has probably been just about completely buried in Messages from various players (modders and otherwise) over the Last couple of years (or more). The game has changed dramatically during that time frame. I have never seen a game where the players have had so much input into how the game works.

Second, people do not always agree on what the correct solution is. Read the "New Patch?" thread and its discussion of engine overloading weapons to see the problem. Other than to make it moddable (sp?), there is no solution that will make everyone happy.

Most of the points you brought up are not new. And, they are slowly being addressed. The big gripe with formations used to be that it didn't have enough slots for a large fleet. That has been addressed. As SJ pointed out, the mine issues are being addressed. There are still more issues, some of which may never get addressed, but it is not because the modders are wasting our time on our own little mods. (Of course, we are not getting paid to fix the game, so really, where we spend our time - a LOT of time - and energy is our own business, not yours.)

[Possum]

Well, to be immodestly, in my AI testing I found many things that need/ed fixing and many of "my" suggestions even made it into patches (for example the AI_unit.txt).

Tell us more about this AI_unit.txt file, please.

I looked in the /Data and /AI folders, and didn't see it, nor did I see any mention of it in the readme.txt or history.txt files....

My current patch Version is 1.49

[Alpha Kodiak]

Originally posted by Possum:

quote:

---

Well, to be immodestly, in my AI testing I found many things that need/ed fixing and many of "my" suggestions even made it into patches (for example the AI_unit.txt).

Tell us more about this AI_unit.txt file, please.

I looked in the /Data and /AI folders, and didn't see it, nor did I see any mention of it in the readme.txt or history.txt files....

My current patch Version is 1.49

---

The AI_Unit file became a part of SEIV Gold, I believe with Version 1.67, though I could be wrong on the exact Version. It allows you to specify unit builds for different planet types after all facilities are built. It allows you make sure that you have some defences, as well as troop/fighter/drone production in outlying systems. There are a few hitches in it, though they are getting cleaned up. Originally, planets would try to keep building, even when there was no storage. The latest Beta Version seems to have cleared this up quite a bit.

[ May 26, 2002, 18:40: Message edited by: Alpha Kodiak ]

[Taera]

hmm, so someone finaly complained about the strategies and formations.

In my opinion the problems with formations begin when you insert non-war ships (carrier, transport etc). I have found a single solution to avoid formation breaking and is realy effective. What you need is to put at least one weapon, preferably with ROF 1 to the ship (any) and then go to strategies and edit the strategy of the fleet (or better - make your own) to not break formation with the given type of ships.
Works fine, though i think that planet capturing does not work in that case.

Planet bombardament is more complex issue.
From what i know that there are 3 things that should be accomplished that ships will not fire on the planet:
1. The planet should not have WPs (look below)
2. There should be a trasport carrying troops
3. Attacking ships should be in a fleet with "capture planet" strategy (or any of your own variations)

Now there is one exception.
If the ships do not have transport in their fleet but have the orders to not fire on planets, they will not fire only if there are no WPs on the planet.
If there are, they will fire untill they are all gone. If then there is no transport to capture the planet, they will just glass it.

Im not sure how right is it all, but those are my own observations.

[tesco samoa]

Taera You should read the thread on Stupid combat.

I once lost a fleet due to the fact that the lead ship had no engines and the computer would not move the ships at all. So for 10 combat's the computer would come in and just destroy the flank ships. Combat would end and the ships would redeploy around this non engine ship and repeat.... I was not impressed to say the least.....

[Gozra]

Just a question. It seems that when I get in fleet battles I kill them with few if any losses or they kill me with few or no losses. This seems to occure about 80% of the time. Are there multiple causes for this? Has anyone else noticed this situation?

[tesco samoa]

Yea I have noticed that.

It seems to be all or nothing.

When you have the larger fleet battles then the results become more realistic.

[oleg]

Cause #1 is sequential, turn-based model of combat. One way or another, one opponent has a free turn to punch enemy and only survivied ships can fire back. Illustration: you and enemy have 10 identical ships that can kill say 5 ships in one round. Let's assume it is a warp-poit battle (ships are in range) and you fire first. 5 enemy ships are dead. 5 remain, fire on you and kill 2.5 (2 dead, 1 damaged) ships. Next turn, you finish enemy. Result: two _absolutely_ identical fleets, identical race bonuses, etc., but you kill them all with only 20% loses.

If only we could make it more or less simultaneous...

Ship initiative ala Moo2, anyone ?