Understanding battle strategies...newbie question

[capnq]

"Damage until all weapons gone" needs more explanation: I forgot about that in my Last post. When that is lit, the percentages above it are ignored; your ship won't change targets until all the current target's weapons are destroyed.

we have choices under the "Tageting Priority Order" of the Firing tab, but how does the computer implement our choices? [...]
What algorithym does the computer use?

I'm pretty sure those are "tie-breakers":

The ship will pick a ship that matches the first priority; if there's more than one potential target that matches, it picks the one that also fits the second priority, and so on down the list. If more than one target matches all four choices, I think it's random.

It's hard to make specific suggestions for what strategy settings to use, because it will vary depending on your ship designs, your opponents' ship designs, and your preferred playing style.

[tbontob]

capnq says says in regards to Targeting Priority Order

I'm pretty sure those are "tie-breakers":

The ship will pick a ship that matches the first priority; if there's more than one potential target that matches, it picks the one that also fits the second priority, and so on down the list. If more than one target matches all four choices, I think it's random.

Yes, I can see the computer operating that way. It would be nice of MM to "inform us" so we newbies can make some intelligent decisions about our battle strategies.

So what is the difference between "largest" and "strongest" ... tonnage and weapons? If tonnage, is it total tonnage (ship + components) or ship tonnage (the shell of the ship).

Also, if I wanted my fleet to avoid attacking a planet, should I avoid largest and strongest?

And how does "Do Not Use Type Priorities" fit into all this? I have put planets on the bottom of the list, and the missile fleet still seems to prefer it over all other targets using
-Has weapons.
-Fastest
-Strongest
-Nearest

Like, it still keeps pounding away at the planet even though it's weapons are destroyed and other "preferred targets" like carriers, colonists, transports are available.

LOL...lots of questions...but I know I am not alone in this...

MM should step in here and give us some guidance on this.

[ August 19, 2002, 22:03: Message edited by: tbontob ]

[Grandpa Kim]

Many of the default settings on Strategies are Really Bad Ideas; changing them is one of the first things I do when I assign a strategy to a design.

One of the best moves I ever made was to go into DefaultStrategies.txt and change the whole works to the way I wanted it. Now any changes I make are mere refinements to a system I like. A big time saver. Oddly enough, the only thing you can't change (except in-game) is the damage percentages-- no entries in the text file.

Kim

[tbontob]

Grandpakim has this to say:

One of the best moves I ever made was to go into DefaultStrategies.txt and change the whole works to the way I wanted it. Now any changes I make are mere refinements to a system I like. A big time saver. Oddly enough, the only thing you can't change (except in-game) is the damage percentages-- no entries in the text file.

What a great idea!

But we newbies have a problem. We may know what we want, but we do not know how to get there! Even worse, we do not know if what we want is even possible to achieve.

Until we have some understanding how the "Strategies" menu works, we can only flounder around...

I think SE4 loses a lot of players who give up in frustration... and then move on to other games where they are given enough information to make intelligent decisions (which makes them feel better)

[tbontob]

Okay guys….here’s the way I see it.

We have a Strategies menu that is not simple because of its many permutations and combinations.

That is difficult enough. But it is also difficult to test, because I understand the “Simulator” of the Designs tab (F3) leaves much to be desired.

So we can stumble around with me thinking the world is the top half of the shell of a living tortoise (India belief), you guys thinking the world is flat and a few knowledgable people thinking it is round.

So I suggest we do something about it.

So here are my thoughts for you to slash, bash, agree with or do with as you wish.

1) We need to get Malfador Machinations attention:

I propose to get it by starting a new thread entitled

MM, help us…information wanted on Battle Strategies.

The first message of the thread would say something like this…

PETITION TO MALFADOR MACHINATIONS

The "Strategies" menu of the Empire Status tab (F11) requires us to make many choices. Many of us feel that we do not have a clear understanding of the effect the choices we select will have on the battle to be fought.

We seek clarification of the effect the choices have on the behaviour of the fleet/ships.

This petition is designed only to acquaint Malfador Machinations with a need they may not be aware of, so please keep your response as brief as possible, preferrably in a Yes/No format.

Any comments, thoughts or otherwise can be directed to the "Understanding battle strategies...newbie question" thread.

So when MM gets this petition from 50 or 100 people then they will have to at least take notice.

It will also serve to clarify whether there is actually a need for the information before we go much further.

2) We decide who is to “chair” the presentation. My own personal choice is Fyron, but being a newbie, there could be a better person. We would, of course, require the agreement of the individual of our choice. By “chair”, I mean "hearing our requests" and putting them into some sort of organized format. Just asking for information, may not be enough…only we know what we need to know.

3) The “chairperson” will then approach MM with the petition and his presentation for information.

If you guys want, I can get the ball rolling by creating the petition.

[capnq]

And how does "Do Not Use Type Priorities" fit into all this? I have put planets on the bottom of the list, and the missile fleet still seems to prefer it over all other targets using
-Has weapons.
-Fastest
-Strongest
-Nearest

If you have "Do not use type priorities" set (unlit), the priority list is utterly ignored; it doesn't matter how you arrange the list if you haven't turned on "Use type before targeting" (lit).

[Elowan]

If you have a ship carrying both fighter pods and direct fire weapons - how do you set the strats to entice the ship to launch fighters first?

[tbontob]

Hmmmmmmmm...

Guess no one wants to get the anwers from the horse's mouth.

Wonder where that phrase came from...a horse cannot talk?

[tbontob]

capnq replies to the question I put...

quote:

---

And how does "Do Not Use Type Priorities" fit into all this? I have put planets on the bottom of the list, and the missile fleet still seems to prefer it over all other targets using
-Has weapons.
-Fastest
-Strongest
-Nearest

---

If you have "Do not use type priorities" set (unlit), the priority list is utterly ignored; it doesn't matter how you arrange the list if you haven't turned on "Use type before targeting" (lit).

Yes, I think I got the button thing now. I was kinda confused as to the way MM puts the question/statement.

For example:
-No system to avoid
-Don't Fire on types
-Do not use type priorities

These are all negative states.

A simpler way would be: (for me anyways )

-Systems avoided
-Fire on types
-Use type priorities

Then the opposite of positive state is negative

Guess 3 university degrees (2 of them post-graduate) with some emphasise on math is no guarantee of not being a doh-doh.

But I would still like to get behind the workings of the menu and discover how the computer makes its decisions.

Like no one was able to answer the other questions I put...

[tbontob]

OK. Here's a scenario...

I got control of a light cruiser through Espionage/Crew Insurrection.

The cruiser is on the home planet sector with one other light cruiser and a planet with missiles. Other types of ships are there as well, but they are weaponless.

The light cruiser has techology I would like to have. So I need to get it to one of my planets to analyse it's contents.

However on the next turn, it gets pLastered in strategic play by the other cruiser and the planets missiles as it goes onto the attack by approaching these targets.

I don't know what the strategy of the captured cruiser is...the Designs menu (F3) will not show the cruiser and since it is not shown, I cannot change it.

But, I figure maybe I can overlay a fleet strategy over the light cruiser strategy of the ship I captured.

So the fleet strategy (call it Run-away) for this one ship fleet which I am thinking of employing is:

Break formation for "Ships" (unlit) - means it will not break formation and revert to its own strategy but still follow the fleet instructions. Correct Y/N?

Now how do I
a) avoid the planet like the plague?
b) engage the other cruiser on the best possible terms which is on course to attack the cruiser I captured? This is a fight I cannot avoid. So, I need a strategy.

To deal with a) I use the "Don't fire on these ships to highlight "planet" under the Firing tab

With (b), both ships have the same design. So as I see it, the ship which fire first and which happens to be the closest to the other is most likely to win.

But I still need to get away from the planet (because of it's missiles)

So, in the Movement tab, I am thinking of using
-Primary - Don't Get Hurt (which basically means run away)
-Secondary - Point Blank

I understand when the primary stategy is impossible, the secondary strategy comes into play.

So when my captured cruiser runs out of room, it engages the light cruiser away from the planet.

Back to the Firing tab, I set the Targeting Priority Order to
-Has weapons
-Nearest
-Fastest
-Strongest

Does this make sense... It does to me... Yet somehow I feel it will not work...because my understanding of what the settings mean are different from the computers.

I haven't tried this yet. So do I try again and again until I get the combination of settings which will cause my captured ship (and any future ships captured on a home planet) to behave in the way I want.

So much easier to have a concrete idea of what the settings mean and what they do.

[ August 21, 2002, 20:11: Message edited by: tbontob ]