Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!

[Omnirizon]

there are GW forums with real scientists?

that's probably why it isn't discussed there by the people trying to talk about it here.

[Radioheart]

It has been my observation that the more responsible media outlets and (in the USA) our new more progressive leadership has rather preferred the term Climate Change to broach the subject of human influence on the climate and atmosphere. Global Warming has become much too divisive and doesn't adequately describe the phenomenon. Should the climate change, some places may get colder.

However you name it, hard to imagine we could make such a significant change in our atmosphere (increased CO2 levels) without having some measurable, observable affect on the global climate. These effects may not have manifested themselves to the extent we can link them to the changed composition of our atmosphere with complete certainty, at least not with the currently observable data, but surely some change will take, and has already taken place.

One thing I think gives a lot of perspective, especially in the context of those who think the earth is such a big place and cannot imagine how we could affect anything on such a scale, is how thin our atmosphere really is. Travel 30 miles in any direction NESW and you'll probably be somewhere quite similar to the place you started. Travel 30 miles straight up are you are in the Mesosphere, the wispy thin border of deep space.

[Tifone]

Lol, peaceful attempt to sink the whole thing in beer = FAILED

I have just one question for my old friend SlipperyJim...
Why do we find EVERY time to the opposite sides of the barricade??
Really, I can spot your position just by the way you refer to this "Global Warmism"

[licker]

What happens if you travel 30 miles straight down?

You do know that we have had higher CO2 levels in the atmosphere before right? And that it was also very cold during that time? Oh, there are reasons I'm sure, well excuses more like it, to make up for unproven science being shoved down everyones throat.

Though I'm not sure who here is actually saying that 'we' shouldn't do anything, though I get the feeling that some of you think that.

[Radioheart]

Originally Posted by licker

Though I'm not sure who here is actually saying that 'we' shouldn't do anything, though I get the feeling that some of you think that.

We are gonna have to stop using fossil fuels eventually. Finite supply after all. Might as well get a headstart.

Also, go go fusion power!

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by Radioheart

We are gonna have to stop using fossil fuels eventually. Finite supply after all. Might as well get a headstart.

Also, go go fusion power!

Well, the supply actually isn't exactly *finite* because it's renewable (Changing World Technologies still has their plant in Carthage, Missouri making oil from turkey guts, although it's had business problems and public-image problems and may not be profitable). Although obviously in order to make more fossil fuels you'd need energy input, and fusion power (which locally or in the sun) is one of the only ways to supply that energy long-term. And at that point, fossil fuels are only a distribution mechanism useful mainly for off-grid components (automobiles), and you might consider another energy distribution medium like fuel cells.

-Max

[thejeff]

Originally Posted by MaxWilson

Well, the supply actually isn't exactly *finite* because it's renewable (Changing World Technologies still has their plant in Carthage, Missouri making oil from turkey guts, although it's had business problems and public-image problems and may not be profitable). Although obviously in order to make more fossil fuels you'd need energy input, and fusion power (which locally or in the sun) is one of the only ways to supply that energy long-term. And at that point, fossil fuels are only a distribution mechanism useful mainly for off-grid components (automobiles), and you might consider another energy distribution medium like fuel cells.

The various Biofuel processes have their issues, but some are promising. They are not, in any sense of the term, "fossil fuels".

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by thejeff

The various Biofuel processes have their issues, but some are promising. They are not, in any sense of the term, "fossil fuels".

Well, they are petrochemicals. Is this a semantic quibble about the fact that they don't come from fossils, or are you claiming that the oil produced from thermal depolymerization (or whatever CWT is calling it nowadays) is chemically different from regular light crude? If so, can you substantiate that claim?

-Max

Edit: P.S. Soyweiser, you may be about to see something you thought was impossible. If thejeff says something like, 'Yes, fossil fuel light crude is 30-50 carbons in length and TDP only produces short-chain hydrocarbons about 18 carbons long,' I will say, 'Oh. I didn't know that. My understanding was that it was the same as oil from oil wells, after refinement.' Or perhaps thejeff will say, 'Oh. I didn't know that was possible.'

[Soyweiser]

Originally Posted by Radioheart

We are gonna have to stop using fossil fuels eventually. Finite supply after all.

Some people even dispute that. Some say that fossil fuels are created by some strange process in the earth crust.

[Soyweiser]

Originally Posted by licker

You do know that we have had higher CO2 levels in the atmosphere before right? And that it was also very cold during that time? Oh, there are reasons I'm sure, well excuses more like it, to make up for unproven science being shoved down everyones throat.

I personally think that we shouldn't focus on co2 alone. There are a lot more factors that show that we are kinda ruining our planet. Increased smog levels, polluted oceans (the floating plastic, dead spots), the ozone layer, depleting resources, overpopulation etc. Not all of this causes global warming. But it is all the caused by our inability to reduce our production population and our constant need for 'moar'.