SE4 Stock Balance Mod

[Taera]

im saying that there are only a handful of things that are unbalanced now - let me repeat the list:
PPB
Torpedoes
PDC
Talisman

Thats it.
Besides it, the techs available after [resource] extraction 3 are there supposedly by a mistake because there is no reason for researching them. So perharps planet-based ones should be on levels 1-3 and system-wide on 4-6, though 4-6 for a 50k RP base tech tree is difficult to get. Perharps they can be attached to a different tech tree, say, Resource Manipulation?

[Asmala]

Originally posted by oleg:
The very idea of this mod is to balance the stock SE, so yes, it must be compatible with old savegames. Just small tweaks here and there.

I think it wouldn't be sensible to maintain compatibility with existing savegames. Even if the patch technically supports older savegames it would be very unfair towards players to have the game Version changed in the middle of the game. For example if the PPB research cost is raised to 20k and one player has just researched it completely and other player is starting to research it, you can imagine how unfair it would be.

Originally posted by Andres:
Component family does not affect the AI at all. It is only used to determine what components are shown when you select "show only latest". Changing some would make for example normal shields be shown making design easier because you would not have to toggle that option all the time.

Changing different component families to normal and phased shields was exactly what was in my mind

Originally posted by Andres:
Changing weapon family may be interesting, allowing modders to make different designs using WMG and RB, but would screw current AI.

And that was the other thing which I'd have liked to change

Sir Whiskers: I think those all are great ideas if they won't screw up the AI.

[Fyron]

I think it wouldn't be sensible to maintain compatibility with existing savegames. Even if the patch technically supports older savegames it would be very unfair towards players to have the game Version changed in the middle of the game.

This is exactly why people should not fear making more than minor changes in the balance mod...

[Asmala]

I haven't yet got the answer to this question:

4. Trivial Changes:
Move Standard Armor to below Stealth, scattering and emissive for the benefit of AI.
How this'll benefit the AI?

[Krsqk]

What about making unphased shields have more points than phased ones? Then, you can choose normal shields (which work just fine against almost every other weapon in the game) for max protection, or phased shields, JustInCase (tm). IIRC, P&N has something similar with Massive Shielding or the like. I do think the difference should be more than the current 75 points at max tech, though--maybe 125? 150?

[Krsqk]

IIRC, the AI currently tries to use Scattering Armor for any armor call, because it is the lowest component (Organics/Crystallines use their racial armor instead, since it's even lower). Since it's 50kt, it's wasteful, and since only one is effective, it's again wasteful. Actually, a code change to make the AI choose the armor with the best size/structure ratio would probably be better (although I would like to see Armor IV-VI added). Organic and Crystalline would still be chosen when available, then Armor III, since it has a better ratio than the Stealth/Scattering armors.

[Asmala]

Originally posted by Krsqk:
IIRC, the AI currently tries to use Scattering Armor for any armor call, because it is the lowest component (Organics/Crystallines use their racial armor instead, since it's even lower). Since it's 50kt, it's wasteful, and since only one is effective, it's again wasteful. Actually, a code change to make the AI choose the armor with the best size/structure ratio would probably be better (although I would like to see Armor IV-VI added). Organic and Crystalline would still be chosen when available, then Armor III, since it has a better ratio than the Stealth/Scattering armors.

OK. But does that mean AI use only one type of armor? No one scattering, one stealth and the rest normal?

[Rollo]

Re: AI and armor

When the Armor ability is called for in a design the AI uses the armor with the highest tech level requirement. That means the highest number of tech levels required.
In case of a tie, it uses the armor that is farther down the components.txt file.
Adding standard armor IV - VI or adding redundant tech requirements to Armor III as well as reordering the file will help the AI, because now it will use standard armor when it is called for.
Special armor can be called for by their specific abilities.

Btw, the same is true for other components that use abilities that don't have a value attached (for example Point-Defense ability).

Hope that clears things up,
Rollo

[ July 27, 2003, 23:14: Message edited by: Rollo ]

[Katchoo]

Maybe the Balance Mod should be a discussion on the #se4 channel. We'd likely make more headway on it than we are now.

[Pax]

Originally posted by Katchoo:
Maybe the Balance Mod should be a discussion on the #se4 channel. We'd likely make more headway on it than we are now.

And then again ... some of us don't frequent that location.