APC Development and related topics.

[IronDuke99]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

The +'s and -'s of the UK AJAX Program. This very simply breaks downs the issues associated with the AJAX as discussed elsewhere, while still providing and confirming other data we're seeing on the type. Most useful here are the pictures that show AJAX in it's different armored configurations, a nice plus for this somewhat controversial piece of equipment.
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/aj...ance-tank-apc/

Regards,
Pat

Yes I thought it was too heavy for Atlas, but, perhaps, C-17 could carry one. Cool, UK could, perhaps, move eight of them a day. Much of the size and weight seem to have been about surviving IED/mines. (Although I would be interested to know how many Scimitar were actually lost to mines, and how many crew)?

Ajax is very large and tall for a recce tank and it does need an ATGM...

[Suhiir]

And to further confuse things apparently the USMC wants to replace the AAV series vehicles with an ACV1.2, a larger variant (13 passengers, better armor, possibly a LAV-25 type turret) of the ACV1.1. The problem is that while the ACV1.1 can handle rivers it can't handle ocean surf, the ACV1.2 will be able to.

https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/R42723.pdf
http://breakingdefense.com/2016/09/b...e-for-marines/

As I mentioned elsewhere one of the problems with replacing the AAV series vehicles with ACV's is the USMC will require apx. 25% more sealift then an equivalent sized MEU equipped with AAVs. But more ships will at least make the Gator Navy (the popular term for the amphibious warfare branch of the US Navy) happy.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

What does it take to build a new Amphibious capable APC when you don't really already a "modern" one to work with? Well Poland is doing just that now. You'll find (If you've followed the discussion a few years back.) a couple of old programs mentioned that were somewhat contested as they have them or not. It was established as - not. A very good read on the thinking, planning and how to we get there to the final options (Maybe.) Gotta get ready for work so here you go...
http://www.defence24.com/501697,poli...he-new-vehicle

Well it has a name so that's always a good start-well again maybe.

Regards,
Pat

[Suhiir]

Yeah, amphibious APCs take the age old tank problem of balancing armor, weapons, and speed to a whole new level because in spite of some manufacturers "cheating" by floating totally unloaded vehicles they have to be able to float with a combat load and passengers to be of any practical use.

You also have to take into account the total volume and mass of the vehicles required to move a given size landing force because without ships to get them where you need them while useful for river crossings they're useless as an amphibious asset.

[luigim]

Algeria in 2016 has fielded BMP2 Berezokh

http://www.armyrecognition.com/april..._31404162.html

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
Don't have much time here's what I have on the Japanese Prototype 8x8 APC. Crew and carry same as the TYPE 96.
http://www.janes.com/article/66989/j...-apc-prototype
http://www.armyrecognition.com/janua..._11601173.html
http://www.military-today.com/apc/ne...se_8x8_apc.htm

And they just posted an update (Within the last 2hrs.) on the EITAN and yes we finally have the dimensions for it!!
http://www.military-today.com/apc/eitan.htm

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

Don,
Don't have much time here's what I have on the Japanese Prototype 8x8 APC. Crew and carry same as the TYPE 96.
http://www.janes.com/article/66989/j...-apc-prototype
http://www.armyrecognition.com/janua..._11601173.html
http://www.military-today.com/apc/ne...se_8x8_apc.htm

I put it in simply because in this case, it was simple. The basic design for APC's these days follows a predictable pattern and I have three years to get the details right but for now, it's a Patria clone

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

And they just posted an update (Within the last 2hrs.) on the EITAN and yes we finally have the dimensions for it!!
http://www.military-today.com/apc/eitan.htm

Regards,
Pat

Still kinda general but I'll do the math and see how close I was

EDIT......one pixel in length and 2 in width ( now corrected )

the Eitan looks tiny compared to the Namer but the Namer is HUGE ( unless they put the smallest troopers they could find for that photo )

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Japan: You're right it looks very similar to the PATRIA.

Israel: What I knew already - The NAMER is based on the MERKAVA IV chassis. What we didn't know is the difference between the two in dimensions, I'm using the NAMER as the reference point for the following...

1)It's 15 tons heavier than the maximum weight of the EITAN with the add on armor package (20 tons w/o it.).

2) L: ~.5m shorter, W: 1 - .8M wider and H: .5 - 1m shorter. The difference again is depending on the add on armor package being added or not for the EITAN.

And really it all makes sense for a tank hull versus an APC one. Following for progression and maintaining a "clean package" if you will.

http://www.military-today.com/apc/namera.htm
http://www.military-today.com/apc/namer.htm
http://www.military-today.com/apc/eitan.htm

I'm done playing, time to enjoy my weekend a little bit.

Regards,
Pat

[luigim]

If you want to save one OOB slot for Russia, I have a candidate for elimination: BRDM3 Scout Vehicle.

It is not in service in Russia ( in Kenya instead)

http://www.armyrecognition.com/russi...res_video.html

"This vehicle is not in service with Russian army, but a contract was signed with Kenya for 88 vehicles. In the sale agreement, Kenya approved the delivery of these vehicles by the end of the year 2011"

http://www.deagel.com/Wheeled-Armore...000348007.aspx


BRDM3 was a proposed BTR80 modification as a recon vehicle. But BRDM2 was to be replaced so...

Digging and digging I discovered that GAZ3937 Vodnik was cancelled (only limited service), replaced by GAZ Tigr that is in full production now from 2011 ( it's the jeep of the Crimean Little Green Men!)

It seems that the latest recon vehicle in the Russian real life OOB is the GAZ Tigr!!

http://www.military-today.com/trucks/gaz_tigr.htm

http://www.military-today.com/trucks/vodnik.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAZ_Vodnik#cite_note-1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAZ_Tiger


http://www.army-technology.com/proje...oured-vehicle/

"ther variants include GAZ-233014-0000186 and GAZ-233014-0000184 armoured personnel carriers, MK-BLA-01 UAV carrier, Kornet-EM multi-purpose missile system, TIGR SCOUT VEHICLE and Tigr-M mobile electronic warfare vehicle."
"Production of this military vehicle ceased in 2013 due to lack of orders. Russian Army preferred Tirg vehicles from the same automaker. The Tigr is broadly similar vehicle, however it is cheaper to produce and is more versatile."

So I propose to add in the Recon vehicle category GAZ Tigr (it's already in game with the kornet variant). In Russian OOB it's complementing BRDM2s as recon vehicle.

https://sputniknews.com/military/201...vehicle-syria/

In the linked photos you can see the standard weapon of Gaz Tigr, PKP Pecheneg I think but I'm not sure.

Here is the most complete russian OOB Source.

http://www.russiadefence.net/t5271-r...nd-rearmaments

You can see GAZ Tigr as recoissennance vehicle.

IN SHORT I propose: DELETE BRDM3 ( not in service)

Recon Formations: ADD GAZ Tigr with PKP Pecheneg, Kord or AGS30 Grenade Launcher

Net slot result = ZERO, not saving one like i was saying at the start

[DRG]

Originally Posted by luigim

So I propose to add in the Recon vehicle category GAZ Tigr (it's already in game with the kornet variant).

???