SE4 Stock Balance Mod

[Rollo]

Originally posted by geoschmo:

quote:

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Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Minor Changes:[list][*]Move Standard Armor to below Stealth, scattering and emissive ,

Didn't we determine this change would keep any savegames from being upgradeable? Not saying it shouldn't be done, but that might be a big issue for some.

Geoschmo

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To keep compatibility with saves (which is of major importance IMO) you can do the following to make the armor AI friendly:

add redundant tech requirements to Armor III, so the AI think it is the best armor to use.

Instead of:

Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Armor
Tech Level Req 1 := 3

use this:

Number of Tech Req := 3
Tech Area Req 1 := Armor
Tech Level Req 1 := 3
Tech Area Req 2 := Armor
Tech Level Req 2 := 3
Tech Area Req 3 := Armor
Tech Level Req 3 := 3

The AI will then value this armor higher as any other, since it requires 9 tech levels. No moving of components would be needed.

Rollo

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Rollo:

quote:

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Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
... MM could include a "non-balanced" mod folder ...

well, I think "Classic" would be more appropriate here.

Rollo

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Probably. I did put it in quotes for a reason.

[Suicide Junkie]

Rollo:

Very good idea, and moves the armor fix down to a trivial change.

[LGM]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
[b]Any more comments on Point Defense? or the Talisman?
Would a significant defense penalty on the Talisman be a good idea?

A defense penalty would be nice for play balance, but it does not make sense that a blessed ship is easier to hit.

In my mod, I made it 10KT armor, so that you can take it out with the first non shield hit. Temporary blessing.

Otherwise, treat it as an improvement to Sensor III: Either Stackable + 20% or Nonstackable +85%. I think that this would make Religious still worth taking as you get a modifer no one else gets. Combine this with War and Death shrines and they will still be tough advesaries, but no longer untouchable.

This would take away my biggest complaint with the Talisman: Range does not matter, which makes it a +1000% to hit and at least a +50% to defense by hanging out a long range.

[ July 30, 2003, 18:13: Message edited by: LGM ]

[LGM]

Make the Quantum Reactor act like a juiced up supply container. Something like Supply III times 10 or 20. After that, it needs to go to a resupply base to re-engergize it.

Someone else did this in their mod. The AI mod, I think.

The drawback, is that as it become depleted, it would draw supply out of ships with higher percentages of supply that joined the fleet. Using these would increase a fleets range of operations, but a successful sortie on a fleet's Quantum Reactor ships could have a devistating effect. A 20% QR would in this scenario supply the fleet for many turns. However, lose that QR and each ship is carrying only 20%, that means about 2 or 3 turns of movement. However, all of this might make for interesting game situations.

Ship Bomb operations against QR ships could be devistating.

Suggestion: Make Resupply Tech a little cheaper.

[ July 30, 2003, 18:22: Message edited by: LGM ]

[Loser]

Originally posted by LGM:
A defense penalty would be nice for play balance, but it does not make sense that a blessed ship is easier to hit.

No less sense than the attempt to gain the approval of some celestial being of questionable existence granting a ship the capacity to hit with every shot fired.

But seriously, the Relic is not just an object housed in the ship, at fifty kilotons it is a whole shrine, built into the ship. And certain things must sit in certain ways inside the shrine, they must not be disturbed. This makes the ship less maneuverable, and lowers defense.

[LGM]

Make Ship defense penalties graduated: Cruisers 0%, Battle Cruisers 10%, Battleships 20%, Dreadnaughts 30%, Baseships 40%.

Consider giving Weapon Mounts Range and ToHit bonuses for Satellites. +1/+2/+3 Range, +10/+20/+30%. Do this for ships too, but only if you weaken weapon Mounts in some other way such as below.

Decrease the efficiency bonus ratios for Weapon Mounds (Damage Mult/Size Mult). Current bonus ratios are 1.33, 1.5, 1.67 for ships. Make the ratios more like 1.1, 1.2, and 1.3. Do not change the size or cust multiplier, just the damage multiplier. For example, Make Damage 1.65 times for Large Mount instead of 2 times. 1.65/1.5 = 1.1 efficiency.

[ July 30, 2003, 18:31: Message edited by: LGM ]

[LGM]

Originally posted by Loser:
No less sense than the attempt to gain the approval of some celestial being of questionable existence granting a ship the capacity to hit with every shot fired.

How can a SEIV diety be of questionable existence? They grant a definate tangible benefit that can be proven statistically. Or do players with the Talisman just think they are better of and non of the stuff really works.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by LGM:
How can a SEIV diety be of questionable existence? They grant a definate tangible benefit that can be proven statistically. Or do players with the Talisman just think they are better of and non of the stuff really works.

Not to get too deep into it, but by your original comment that it does not make sense that a blessed ship is easier to hit you sort of took the discussion out of the realm of purely discussing it on SE4 terms. Loser appears to be simply discusing it with you on the same terms you moved it to there of a reality argument. If you want to keep it strictly in the realm of an SE4 debate then all you need for the talisman ship to incur a defense penalty is a suitably worded description. His comment about them being sensitive to combat manuvers will do as well as any other. It doesn't have to "make sense", if we are speaking strictly in SE4 game terms.

Geoschmo

[ July 30, 2003, 18:46: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[Suicide Junkie]

Pulling out the quantum reactor ability is a pretty big change.
Setting the cost down to a relatively small amount, and perhaps reducing its size to 10kt would make the AI vs Humans use of the QR fairer with a minimum of AI side effects.

And I'd have to agree that Talisman and Realism don't mix Anything goes for something like that.

[ July 30, 2003, 19:21: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]