How would you patch this game?

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by Wendigo:
My most wanted features were already added (or restored from DomI) [snip]

I still miss the rotating cube...

Hmmm, and also the ability to alchemize astral pearls into research points.

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:

quote:

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Originally posted by Wendigo:
My most wanted features were already added (or restored from DomI) [snip]

I still miss the rotating cube...

Hmmm, and also the ability to alchemize astral pearls into research points.

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How about the unit-counts switched from swords back to color bars?

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Scott Hebert:
What I feel Norfleet is missing is the rich variety of strategies available in Dominions, and so a clear hierarchy is not necessary. Now, if Norfleet believes there is one best strategy to win Dominions, then his comments make perfect sense.

I've never said I believed that. I'm fully aware that there are many different strategies one can opt to pursue in Dominions II. However, it's also the case that many options available for the creation of a pretender do not seem to fill any niche involved in the formulation of any known or conjectural strategy, or are outclassed in practically all ways by something else of comparable or lesser cost(see: POD vs. Lord of the Gates). These options are, in essence, crap. Whether this is something that should be patched or modded, or just something that exists to serve as a warning to others, is another matter.

Originally posted by Blitz:
Giving me a reason to play Golden Age as a MP race can wait. Hopefully these and other "bad" choices will be fixed in time.

There's nothing wrong with GA Arco as an MP race. I've played them and was rather satisfied with the results. There are a few nagging issues of everything about them being capitol only, but they're far from unplayably bad.

However, I refuse to believe that Golden Age Arcoscephale is crappy to trick bad players into using it. This race was the first I latched onto with this game, and in time I came to realize that it pretty much stunk.

Perhaps you're just not getting them: I rather liked them, myself. In fact, my initial opinion was rather like yours: A cursory glance suggested they sucked. Then somebody asked me for my advice about them, forcing me to actually evaluate them critically. As I looked over their actual strengths in greater depth, I realized, "Hey, you know, these guys really suit me. I'm gonna play 'em!". And so I did.

Hopefully it's dealt with at some point, because I love the concept... but I find it very hard to believe that it was intentionaly made bad to reward players for not playing it

Well, *I* like them. Maybe you're just not finding their niche. There are certainly worse, crummier themes out there, some of which are awful enough to have gathered attention lately.

[Molog]

I would like the bug where sneaking disease spreaders get 283482 experience fixed.

[HotNifeThruButr]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:

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Originally posted by HotNifeThruButr:
and fix the LoF's graphics.

There's nothing wrong with his graphics.

- Make number of events dependant on the number of provinces you own

They already are.

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There are currently two Lords of Fertility, one naked and one not. "There can only be one"

Heh, now we have three topics going

1. This thread is/isn't insulting and should be about modding instead.

2. The world against Norfleet/why there must be crap units/themes/pretenders

3. The original topic.

In response to #1, I didn't mean it in any malicious way, if the Moderators want to change the topic name, go ahead. Personally, I think you're too sensitive. BTW, I would make a mod if I knew anything about mod-making and, what would it be, computer science? I just graduated from Middle School, so don't expect much genius computer-wise from me.

In response to #2, I'm a firm believer in "different but equal" (and this is for game balancing, not segregation) way of making a game. This might not be true for the devs, and I'm not trying to force my ways on them, but I don't think any unit should be blatantly better than another. Man's longbowmen pack a significantly better punch than the shortbowmen most other nations get, but they're also more expensive to balance it out. Crossbows take out heavy armor, but they're balanced by being slow to reload and expensive in resources. All are different, but to say that one is better than another is an iffy statement at best.

To add to #3, I would make searching magic Messages go to the province instead of commander. Right now, it feels like "you have found 2 magic sites in Cun Aral, zoom in to C'tis?"

I would also give the Infernal forces series - I know this applies to Frost Fiends, but I haven't looked into the others - more bang for the buck. Right now, summoning a single demon is more economical than a horde, and time shouldn't be the only thing saved in such an advanced spell.

I'll try to be more diplomatic the next time around.

[PvK]

Originally posted by HotNifeThruButr:
... I would also give the Infernal forces series - I know this applies to Frost Fiends, but I haven't looked into the others - more bang for the buck. Right now, summoning a single demon is more economical than a horde, and time shouldn't be the only thing saved in such an advanced spell.
...

In general, I'd say that it's interesting to retain a trade-off even after the more powerful spell is researched.

PvK

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Molog:
I would like the bug where sneaking disease spreaders get 283482 experience fixed.

That still exists? I thought that was quashed a patch or two ago...

[Zapmeister]

Originally posted by Anglachel:
I understand you stress diversity of "usage" but what exactly is it in your experience that has lead you to the conclusion that there is a lack of diversity of usage and have you compared notes with a variety of other players on this to find commonality? I just don't understand why you would want to have the above course followed in the pursuit of "diversity".

Honestly curious.

The original question was how would *I* patch the game, if the choice was up to me. To answer this personal question, I drew on my personal experience of only employing a small subset of the available game elements myself, with very little reference to what other people do.

That said, in my only post-2.12 game, I find myself almost surrounded by Vampire Queens, an event which I think speaks for itself.

If you nerf/enhance to address balance issues, you don't make everything the same. They are still different in the way they act - some items produce gems, some enhance attack factor, some give supply etc. There's plenty of diversity there that is lost if the items are not used. If items are so weak that they are rarely or never used, then they may as well not be in the game, and to my mind that's a problem worth fixing.

I know Norfleet goes on about how this line of argument is "whining" and whatnot, but really it's about expanding the tactical options available to players, not simply about labelling things as overpowered or underpowered.

It's about making a great game better, and the principle (seeking balance) was not invented by me, but has been around for a lot longer than this particular great game. Honestly, I'm surprised it draws so much negative comment.

[Boron]

only thing i would wish is a disband option.
because if you get one of the random events which gives you xx weak militias or zealots.
because the front can be some provinces away and only thing surely to assasinate them is letting them attack strong fliers or something like this otherwise they will just rout and be in some of your neighbor provinces .
they are just useless but cost you some upkeep.
i think it is considered as a good event so if you have "bad" luck with high luck scale and get these suckers every few turns you have quite an upkeep for them and they are ABSOLUTELY useless .

or is there already a easy way how to get rid of them in the turn you get them ?

[Blitz]

Some of the more shrill elements of the populace would have you believe that anything which catches on as popular, I.E., "Flavor-of-the Week", is automatically overpowered, and as such, they scream for a nerf. This is generally around the time our flavor of the week becomes "whine du jour". They neglect the fact that people are sheep, and will follow whoever currently appears to be the leader. The approach Zap here would advocate trades the flavor-of-the-week for "All Options Suck". Sure, this is certainly balanced, but "Everything is equally useless" is not a very entertaining form of play! What's the point in trying to think of anything new to combine, when everything either is, or will be, made equally useless?

I'm getting a little bored of this propaganda Norfleet. Now that the Vampire Queen has been rightfully nerfed, it's still impossible for you to admit (even to yourself?) that you were either incorrect in your assesment of the pretender's relitive strength, or simply bsing us all in a futile attempt to hide the obvious imbalance that you enjoyed abusing so much. You are very likely the Last defender of the old VQ, even Gandalf and Zen have given up and finally conceded that changes had to be made.

If you are correct about your theory, then it will only be a matter of time before the next huge outcry against a "perfectly legitimate" strategy starts. The reality is that while there may be some occasional discussion about certian issues... there simply will not be a debate about anything currently in the game that rivals the VQ outcry. This is obviously because nothing else in the game is as hopelessly broken as that pretender god was. I would wager that clam of pearls would most likely be next on most ***** lists, but I seriously doubt that there will be anywhere near the fuss over that than there was over your flying, regenerating, erthreal, vampire-summoning, lifedraining lich.

I remember you posting about how your strategies would work just as well with a Ghost King, and you argued that his cheaper paths and better defensive stats made him almost as attractive for munchkin Ermor. By your own arguments, this is hardly a crippling blow for your strategy, and I'm sure you will have just as much success without your hopelessly broken immortal SC. Unfortunately, this most likely won't be the case. The fact is, you probably knew better than anyone how overpowered that unit was, being arguably the game's foremost expert on abusing her. It's unfortunate that now that the fight is lost that we must continue to read the sour-grapes Posts arguing a point even you yourself do not believe.

[ June 17, 2004, 13:34: Message edited by: Blitz ]