OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!

[Skolem]

As you are discussing this topics, can I ask the americans of this bord, a single thing: I never understand why things that are organized by the state are such a terrible thing?
As a society it is normal to help others when you aren't in need, as they will help you if you are, thats one of the most basic idea, and health or education belongs to this, why should someone not receive any help in such thing just because he hadn't the money? Sure they may be some who would profite of this but there aren't the majority, AND there are the others who had no chance in life, why punish them?
I never understand this point of view, but maybe it's just that I am a foolish european
Skolem

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
This may be the case, but paying for your healthcare individually does have one very large benefit, especially because health care costs a lot: If you are healthy, you don't need any!

Can you show me that a sizable portion of the population will remain healthy for their entire life?

In Canada, it's government-funded healthcare. Everyone gets it, including people who rightly couldn't afford it, and therefore don't really need it, and as a result, in some places, it can be too crowded with people getting unnecessary treatment.

This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard you say. Do you seriously believe that a heart attack patient doesn't need treatment because they don't have tens of thousands of dollars in cash?

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
Can you show me that a sizable portion of the population will remain healthy for their entire life?

Nope. Nobody remains healthy their entire lives. That's why people die, you see? Living forever is incredibly boring, anyway.

This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard you say. Do you seriously believe that a heart attack patient doesn't need treatment because they don't have tens of thousands of dollars in cash?

Well, excuse me if I don't come from the new, modern "must have it even if I can't afford it" culture that Zen informs me is increasingly pervasive. In *MY* day, if you couldn't afford something, you got a nice lesson in something we called "Learning To Do Without". Hell, in my day, people had heart attacks just *DIED* most of the time, even if you did try to blow a wad of cash on treatment. So you'll understand if I'm skeptical that somebody really *NEEDS* these things. We didn't have them in my day, and people managed anyway! Funny, how that works, yes? Sure, some of them died, but as you can clearly see, we managed. You're just spoiled and squeamish. Learn to accept that death is a natural part of life, and when stuff like this happens that you, obviously, couldn't be bothered to prepare for, you obviously didn't think it was important to do so, so you accept the consequences. What happened to personal responsibility? It's quite simple: If you can't be bothered to prepare for these things, you deserve it. If none of your friends will help you either, obviously, you're not important enough to the world, or even yourself, that somebody else should be shouldering what should have been YOUR responsibility. Learn to accept the consequences of your actions and inactions. Maybe if you hadn't blown all your cash on some useless doohickey or a new car, you wouldn't be too broke to afford medical treatment.

[NTJedi]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
While your taxes will increase to pay for a public health care system, your overall cost will only increase if you never contract a serious illness in your life.

That's wrong... take a look at how much switzerland is paying for this government healthcare. Another bad reason for government healthcare is we would never be able to go back.

quote:

---

Let us as citizens pay for healthcare when we need the care.

And if you can't afford to pay, then we should just let you rot?

---

So what you're suggesting is why just stop at U.S citizens?? Lets provide a Universal HealthCare for all countries including illegal aliens within our own. We can't just let them rot either... right?

Do you have any evidence that the waiting time would increase? Since I doubt that you do, you can hardly say that it's "without a doubt".

Lets see... there are millions without any healthcare which would be going to the hospitals if they could... whether or not its needed.
Currently X amount of people are going to the hospitals everyday.
With a government healthcare it would be X amount of people going to the hospitals PLUS Y amount of people also going which couldn't afford this before. Less beds/rooms available... less medical supplies... because of Y amount of people also going.

Example=
Will people start giving more blood with the new healthcare system to help provide the supplies needed for Y amount of people?? Take a guess!

[Skolem]

Is it really relaxing, to be say 20 year old and working to put some money back for the case you have a leg broken , for the case you must go to the dentist, maybe because you want your children (say in ten years)to go do the university, or simply to be sure that even if he fellt ill you can afford a doctor, or etc... Is it really a feeling of freedom or is it just fear of the future because something could happen. I'm sure I don't want to live with that feeling, but as you seem to live with it, I just want you to ask if it enhance your happiness, your quality of life?

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Nope. Nobody remains healthy their entire lives. That's why people die, you see? Living forever is incredibly boring, anyway.

Thanks for admitting that your statement that you save money with private healthcare was incorrect.

In *MY* day, if you couldn't afford something, you got a nice lesson in something we called "Learning To Do Without".

You're still alive, and I doubt that you are more than 20 years old given your demonstrated maturity level and amount of free time. The here and now is "*YOUR* day".

I've snipped the rest of your meandering bull**** where you demonstrate, once again, that you are barely a member of humanity thanks to your complete lack of empathy.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by NTJedi:
That's wrong... take a look at how much switzerland is paying for this government healthcare.

Why don't you take a look at Canada, where better health care than what is available in the U.S. (30th in the world vs. 38th), costs 57% as much per person.

Another bad reason for government healthcare is we would never be able to go back.

Why would you want to go back?

So what you're suggesting is why just stop at U.S citizens?? Lets provide a Universal HealthCare for all countries including illegal aliens within our own. We can't just let them rot either... right?

If they pay American taxes, or are U.S. citizens, then the American government should support them. Your strawman about other countries is meaningless, since they are not U.S. taxpayers or citizens.

]Lets see... there are millions without any healthcare which would be going to the hospitals if they could...

This is unarguably good.

whether or not its needed.

This is complete and utter bull****. Doctors are perfectly capable of not spending money on people that don't need treatment. People, even the poor who you seem to despise, despite claiming to be a member of the lower class, have ethics. People don't purposefully

Currently X amount of people are going to the hospitals everyday.
With a government healthcare it would be X amount of people going to the hospitals PLUS Y amount of people also going which couldn't afford this before. Less beds/rooms available... less medical supplies... because of Y amount of people also going.

I can't believe that you are seriously making an argument that it's a _good_ thing that people are going without medical treatment.

Example=
Will people start giving more blood with the new healthcare system to help provide the supplies needed for Y amount of people?? Take a guess!

I don't have to guess. The blood supply in Canada is completely voluntary, Canadian Blood Services is a government agency that is responsible for collecting blood, and guess what, we have adequate, though sometimes low blood supplies just like the U.S.

[PrinzMegaherz]

Even more importantly is John Kerry is going against his catholic religion which is a serious moral issue.
John Kerry is unapologetically pro-abortion... yet as a Catholic, he is required to be personally opposed to the idea.

What does religion have to do with being a good president? You don't need to be religious to have decent moral values (in fact, many "bad" people tend to have some religious background. Suizide bombers who claim its for their god, paedophilic priests...).

I am a catholic, so I am not allowed to have an oppinion other than that of the pope?

[Skolem]

Originally posted by PrinzMegaherz:
I am a catholic, so I am not allowed to have an oppinion other than that of the pope?

You are catholic and from Mainz, you have no right to have an opinion that is different from the pope (sadly me to) .

[Demosthenes]

Alright everyone check out JibJab for their personal amusement.

Thread over.