Repulsion strategies

[Teraswaerto]

The spell AI likes to cast Sleep, and 30 range isn't that short. It targets the biggest creatures, so I think some giants would've been put to sleep, after which they would die even to militia.

Barbarians or predatory lizards would be a good choice against the giants, with their higher damage weapons, and since armor doesn't really help.

I can't really say if Arco could've won, just throwing some ideas on how to deal with Niefel giants out there.

[Twan]

An unlisted bless strategy :

Atlantis LE, W9A8+ (option : W9E9, but +4 protection isn't as efficient as air shield with all the crossbownen in LE), the idea is : the Assartut already have good magic weapons and a correct attack skill, have 16hp, do a lot of dammage, and are cheap (25g, 10res) allowing to take sloth to finance the bless, their only weakness is their protection (12). The water bless give them an honorable 14 defense + the quickness effect, the air bless a 60+% air shield, and they become as good as 3 times more expensive sacred.

This strategy is very efficient on small maps, even if there are many counters (engaging more troops, using AE spells, tramplers...) they are more expensive than Asartuts. Their real weakness is to be capitol only. Being able at best to make only 10 of them a turn makes the scales cost of this strategy prohibitive on big maps.

[DrPraetorious]

I actually prefer an E9A8 blessing for my assartut - that way, when your god wakes up, he provides diversification to LE Atlantis' already powerful magic (you hardly need more water!)

But anyway I don't regard that as a "rush" strategy - you have a good unit for the price, and thus a strong army, but....

As for the piles of crap counter to regenerating giants - it requires tactics that I need to flesh out it more detail, but the idea is not that you all charge the giant at once. You use the craptons of crap as skirmishers, so that the giants have to chase small stacks around the battlefield while they got shot at - and sleep or fireballs or whatever are toosed aboot.

If you try to charge the giants in a mob, yeah, you'll all get killed.

[chrispedersen]

Resurrect thread:

F9W9(Z4-6) Mictlan, or Lanka where Z can profitably be Nature or Blood.

These two are probably the kings of the bless rush...

[llamabeast]

I still find E9N9 Niefel Giants to be upsetting. In fact they may be the thing I like least about the game. Fighting them is just a miserable experience, and if you don't have tolerable research (for Destruction) I still don't know how you're meant to kill them.

[Ironhawk]

Would massed tangle vines work? Without quickness wouldnt they may be bogged down forever trying to break the vines each round? Though truthfully I can't think of anything that gets around the hold x5 tactic pointed out above. Unless you knew you were gonna face it going in and told all your mages to hold x5 which is a dodgy proposition at best.

[ano]

Fighting them is just a miserable experience, and if you don't have tolerable research (for Destruction) I still don't know how you're meant to kill them.

Why wait for destruction when Armor of Achilles is lower in research and cost and affects the whole square. Yes, it's range is limited but if you have enough mages you may script them properly (and may be set them to retreat after two or three casts). Without armor, Niefel Giants should be killed easily with anything that's immune to cold or strikes fast and painful.

[chrispedersen]

llama, read the other thread on niefle - but there are a lot of reasonable possible counters to niefle. Bow of botox (especially before a bless) is one of my favorites.

Rain of toads, blight is another. And yeah, I love tanglevince and vine arrows as well Iron.

[Humakty]

I don't think the vast superiority of ubber blesses can be contested at the very beginning of a game. There are maybe some unadequate counters that early on, but what truly balances the blesses is that, ultimately, the ubber blessers are most of the time stuck with lame magic on their gods, as W9 F9 won't do much for you late game, and your so sweet sacreds won't be much more than chaff.

So it's all a question of opportunity costs, as you most of the time won't be able to have your cake and eat it. The real question being : Will I have time to take an overwhelming advantage with my sacreds/ to build up my late game combo ?

PS :all of this chatter is uttered by a Solo Player, those guys are arrogant worms...

[JimMorrison]

W9/F9 Jags or Eagles are never obsolete (plus Mictlan has excellent Sacred summons). E9/N9 Niefel Giants, the same. You develop more useful counters, and they develop greater numbers, and better support - it's always an arms race, and a heavy bless nation starts the game with an AK-47, while you come out with a pistol.