Some hints on MA R'yleh?

[JimMorrison]

(Edit: I swear I had tested the capital income before, though I didn't record the results at the time. I just did the test, so I retract my assertion about standardized home province income. )

[JimMorrison]

Well if anything, yes, it seems that the math is very misleading. The only thing that can be said for it is that the more water provinces there are, the more worthwhile it is to take Cold 3 as an aquatic, but probably not Heat. I may run a few turns into a game now, and see if R'lyeh takes the same encumbrance penalties that a non-aquatic does for Cold on land.


Edit ---

The test confirms that although income effects underwater are unpredictable, all units that are not CR WILL take an Enc hit in provinces that have Cold 3. The only unit that wasn't Encumbered was my Void Lord, who is 50% CR.

[Saxon]

The Visitor, with something like 10 strategic movement is a thug that you can drop anywhere in a hurry. Combined with intelligence from spys, assassins and astral windows, it can be very useful.

Especially if your opponents is trying to get into the water with you and can not buy PD. Let them come in a bit, then cut off their escape with the Visitor, at the same time, hitting their main army and forcing it to retreat.

Or hitting lake provinces in the middle of your land based opponent. Throw up some PD and a temple. Perhaps a castle and a raiding force.

[thejeff]

Does the Visitor get it's full movement across water provinces, or is it restricted to 1 province in the water, like everyone else?

And can it lead Vastnesses?

[Saxon]

I am not sure, the map we used would have made it possible to do land travel, even if starting and ending in water. I got it once in SP, but don't recall.

It is supposed to be a visitor from some other plane, so it might avoid the water restriction, it would be thematic.

No progression to vastness.

[Zeldor]

From what I know water provinces are not affected by temperature scales. Nor cold nor heat. You take cold just because it is usually more useful [water mages].

[krpeters]

On the subject of cold and water --

Cold benefits underwater creatures by increasing the oxygen dissolved in it for them to breathe. Heating it up allows the oxygen to escape to the air above and then the fish suffocate, the cause of many fish kills in a hot summer.

Implementing this within the present game mechanics is tricky. Underwater creatures should definitely get the "cold blooded" tag and be injured by cold if they come ashore. But while underwater, the affect of the cold on their bodies is probably balanced by the increased O2. So no penalty or bonus for cold, but a penalty for heat underwater makes some sense.

[JimMorrison]

The Visitor is hampered by moving through water, it's annoying. And yes, it CAN lead Vastnesses, it gets ~160 Magic Leadership. This makes them the ultimate overland raiders IMO, even though to fully exploit that mobility, you're either attacking blind a lot, or you have some pretty intense scout saturation.....

[chrispedersen]

Again Jim,
Thats why for me it matters a lot more who you are playing with.

I prefer pump almost every last farthing into unarmored illithid soldiers, who mind blast. Enc doesn't matter to them.

I set up in the back - and have very minimal meat shields.

[JimMorrison]

Indeed. I am pretty fond of the Meteorite Guards, because of their low gold cost. But with that heavy armor AND penalties from cold, it starts to become a logistical problem to exploit those heavy infantry.

Though if you only took Cold 2, you won't get so much an income penalty on land, and you won't get the Enc penalty on any of your troops. I need to play around more with pretender creation, see which style I am happiest with.