Russian units v4

[KraMax]

My error.
Absolutely with you it agree are different systems.
The chassis at these systems identical - MT-LB.

From the point of view of directly artillery investigation (FO) - more all approaches to it is SNAR-10 (Stantsiya Nazemnoy Artilleriyskoy Razvedki - in English = station of land artillery investigation) and series systems PRP (Peredvizhnoy Razvedyvatelniy Punkt - in English - mobile prospecting point). Systems 1V13... 15 are systems of command and a fire control. They and are called - control systems. But they too can calculate a site of another's artillery, etc.
I will agree that it is enough complicated question with these systems and I could not find till now exact data how actually these systems were used.
But I think till now, that if you wish to leave these systems in game it is necessary to change at them name ACRV - on 1V13 or 1V14 etc.

[DRG]

non-related subject

In your notes you have this :

11. weapon 030 - 122mm M30 L22 - in game it is used SU-122. Su-122 with such weapon were issued in the USSR from December, 1942 till August, 1943 - all 638 pieces have been let out. Quantity SU-122 with such weapon has remained and till the end of war, but already were issued as well others SU-122 with other weapon. I am assured this weapon it is necessary to clean.

The SU-122 with the original gun may very well have disappeared from the Russian inventory right after the end of WW2. There were, after all, much better vehicles that did the same job better. The ISU-122 is one example.

However, I noted in the SPR OOB you have a version of the su-122 mounting a the D-25 gun in slot 258. There was a variant that was tested during the war using the D-25 but it never made it into production

http://www.battlefield.ru/index.php?...mid=50&lang=en

SU-122P

SU-122P. (M.Svirin)
In autumn 1944, due to delaying the mass production of the SU-100, the Uralmash's Design Bureau offered a project of a tank destroyer based on the SU-100. Like the SU-85M, this vehicle was the common SU-100 but armed with a 122 mm Tank Gun D-25S. Such modernisation was possible due to unified fastening of both guns.

The very first trials of the SU-122P conducted in October 1944, after that the vehicle was sent to the Governmental trials which were passed as well. By the results of both trials, the SU-122P was recommended for service, but it didn't mostly because of slow rate of fire.

The SU-122-54 ( or IT-122 ) came later and I have added it and a new Icon for it to the game. From what I can see the old SU-122 with the L22 gun disappeared from service by 1946 and I have removed it from the OOB and used that weapon slot for the SU-122-54

Also......

I've spent a considerable amount of time working on the Russian OOB and all the other OOB's that making a change to the Russian OOB affects. I noted the SPR OOB had a number of formations nationalized to zero that were not attached to a larger formation. Nationalizing to zero is fine but unless you give them a home they will never show up in the game. You may have already corrected this but a couple of examples are F518, F521, F524, F521 I'm sure there are others I just don't have time ATM to list them all. None of those will show up in the game. It may be they were built and the decision was made to not included them but it may also be they were intended to be used in Company type formations and forgotten about OR they were intended to be correctly nationalized but set to zero in error

Don

[KraMax]

I will attentively study the information on SU-122. While I am not ready to speak on this theme since studied this question very much for a long time (it is necessary to study all my archives).


On formations.

Basically we specified 0 for parametre of the country for formations which should be accessible as a part of other formations and should not be accessible in the basic screen of purchase of armies. Also there there are some formations with parametre 0 for the country which do not enter more not into what other formations, but we have cleaned them from the basic screen of purchase of armies that this screen did not take a lot of place (you can return them in the screen of purchase or I can give the corrected variant of formations).

I have archives of several sites on organizational-regular structure of some our kinds of armies. But all of them in Russian yet the worthy translation into English also is not ready. If to you I can interestingly send them to you in Russian.

[DRG]

Maxim

I was just pointing out you had formations in the SPR OOB that were set up as nation zero that were not being used by a larger formation and I understand the concept of hiding small formations from the purchase screen that are only used by larger formations. We've been doing that for years. There are a number of reasons this could happen and I understand all of them. It's possible they were set to zero in error or it is possible the larger formation that was supposed to use them was forgotten about or eliminated and these were forgotten about. The point is there are a number of them in the SPR OOB and they can be found easily enough with MOBHacks data base checker "platoon finder" All the ones nationalized to zero are flagged and clicking on them will tell you if they are being used by a larger formation. If they are not being used they won't show up in the game

Don

[DRG]

Maxim

I need documentation on the use of SU-122's as SP-arty. The SPR OOB uses them that way from 1946- 1969. I'm quite happy to add them to the official OOB in that capacity with some further information

Don

[Marcello]

Originally Posted by DRG

Maxim

I need documentation on the use of SU-122's as SP-arty. The SPR OOB uses them that way from 1946- 1969. I'm quite happy to add them to the official OOB in that capacity with some further information
Don

Do you mean SU-122s specifically or even JSU-122s?

The latter at least were used for such missions.
http://www.battlefield.ru/content/view/40/45/lang,en/

Time to time, JSU's used for artillery missions because they were able for both direct and indirect fire. In particular, during the Sandomir-Silesia offensive operation, the 368th Guards OTSAP of the 1st Ukrainian Front was assigned for artillery mission and for 107 minutes the regiment fired 980 shells.

As a result, two German mortar batteries were destroyed as well as other 8 German guns, about one German infantry battalion was wiped out. Interesting to note, that additional rounds were placed at the vehicles, but anyway, JSU's used their "internal" ammunition first. Otherwise, rate of fire become slower because it takes up to 40 minutes to load 20 rounds into the vehicle.

[Marcello]

It seems that as policy the soviets made their tanks and assault guns capable of at least some indirect fire if possible.
For example T-55s can fire indirect fire missions too; the iraqis were particulalry fond of this tactic.

EDIT
I missed the replies.
I would doubt that SU-122s, JSU-122s etc. were ever set up as dedicated indirect fire assets in the way you mean. They were far from being optimized for such job.

[DRG]

Lot's of tanks have been used for indirect fire missions. The Sherman was often used in that role but I'm not interested in ad hoc useage of a vehicle.

However..... if the SU-122 ( the old one with the short M-30 gun ) was included in the TO&E of the SP arty units well after the war ended I will be happy to include it as "SP-Arty" but not if it was only used in that role when nothing else was available otherwise every OOB would be filled with tanks and SP guns as "SP-Arty" becasue someone could say they were pressed into service like that on occasion.

Bottome line- was it's primary role post war as SP-Arty used in an indirect fire role and not "assault gun" ??

Don

[KraMax]

Dear Don.

SU-122 - It is necessary to clean from game since after WW2 they any more were not on arms. After WW2 on arms were in the mid-fifties made SU-122-54 by small party 77-95 units.

link:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showt...hlight=russian

Here we already discussed on this theme.

==============

As to use SU-122 as SP Howitzer is a truth. They were used as artillery and as assault gun.

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%A3-122

Here a translation into English of the first paragraph:

"SU-122 is average on weight the Soviet samohodno-artillery installation (SPG), belonging to the class of assault guns (with some restrictions it could be used and as a self-propelled howitzer). For the first time have been applied on February, 14th, 1943 in region Smerdyni as a part of 1433 and 1434 SAP in private operation 54A on the Volkhov front."

Best regards

[DRG]

Yes Maxim, I know about the SU-122-54 and yes I know anything with a gun could be used as SP arty but I wanted to know if these were used SPECIFICALLY that way after the war. Apparently not. They have been removed

You might want to make a note to remove them from the SPR OOB as well
Don