The New Hinnom Nation

[mathusalem]

I agree with Meglobob too, Dom3 need more summoning chassis for end game.

[LDiCesare]

I made a small test where Hinnom's sacreds with a moderate bless (E6N4, earth was for the mages but it's not really useful) ate everyone else. I ran them into T'ien Ch'i with a F9W9 bless and T'ien Ch'i couldn't do anything against them. Considering I don't know how to play Hinnom yet and managed to get some respectable results wiht EA TC in MP, I tend to believe the nation is overpowered. Their sacreds and chariots are very very powerful, and with Growth 3 it took some time for the population to dwindle. And even then, population didn't fall low enough to be a concern.
I'd like to point out that the Ammi can be built without a lab, which is a little advantage compared to the rest, but it's really silly to be able to build a lvl2 mage without a lab.

[MaxWilson]

LDiCesare said:
I made a small test where Hinnom's sacreds with a moderate bless (E6N4, earth was for the mages but it's not really useful) ate everyone else. I ran them into T'ien Ch'i with a F9W9 bless and T'ien Ch'i couldn't do anything against them. Considering I don't know how to play Hinnom yet and managed to get some respectable results wiht EA TC in MP, I tend to believe the nation is overpowered.

What does EA T'ien Ch'i usually do against Niefelheim? It seems that the counters which work against Niefel Jarls are likely to work against Avvite Charioteers and Melqartim. (In a general sense. Frozen Heart will replace Incinerate.) Or is Niefelheim >> TC?

Edit: a thought. I suppose T'ien Ch'i probably uses Fire Arrows against Niefelheim, which isn't going to work well against Hinnom. Destruction/Iron Bane seems like a good idea, though.

-Max

[Twan]

hunt11 said:
This is how I see the spell. The Rephiam are just paying for their grandparents to visit, it's just that their grandparents are very powerful demons, and they need to sacrifice virgins instead of paying for a ticket.

Grigori descriptions say the gods have jailed them, they are trapped in chains and magical bonds etc... so it isn't that mundane.

It leads me to another idea to balance grigoris : a global other nations may cast to strengthen their bonds and make them not summonable as long it isn't dispelled - or a more funny one : a global making the call grigori 177b spell call gregorius like a puny wish -.

(or if wasting a global slot for that is too much, a generic global blocking all national summons above level x, or all endgame blood summons, or all unique summons)

[MaxWilson]

chrispedersen said:
I'm starting an MP with this race, so I don't want to give away too many details. But from the way I look at things, the strongest unit is actually the size 6 tramplers at 75 gold.

Max out gold and production and you can make an army a turn that can take almost any indy.

Most tramplers are very good for expansion. C'tis and Arco love their charioteers. Of course, the Avvite chariot has more hit points than a C'tissian chariot.

-Max

[Zeldor]

But hmm... aren't other charioteers size4, not6? That is huge difference in trampling...

[MaxWilson]

Zeldor said:
But hmm... aren't other charioteers size4, not6? That is huge difference in trampling...

Size 6 does let you trample twice as many units, and makes the trampling do a little bit more damage. That's the difference between C'tis/Arco's chariots and Caelum's/Kailasa's mammoths. I haven't noticed that chariots (or troglodytes) have any trouble at all walking all over indies, but it's possible that mammoths and Avvite chariots do better against national troops. I have limited experience with mammoths and none with MP so I'll decline to give an opinion there.

-Max

[LDiCesare]

MaxWilson said:
Size 6 does let you trample twice as many units, and makes the trampling do a little bit more damage. That's the difference between C'tis/Arco's chariots and Caelum's/Kailasa's mammoths. I haven't noticed that chariots (or troglodytes) have any trouble at all walking all over indies, but it's possible that mammoths and Avvite chariots do better against national troops. I have limited experience with mammoths and none with MP so I'll decline to give an opinion there.

-Max

Troglodytes tend to die a lot because of their poor protection and relatively low hp.
Avvite chariots tend to trample T'ien Ch'i chariots very well, and when you compare the prices, Avvite chariots are a really good deal.
Avvite chariots also happen to have javelins. I know that it may look silly, but mass a lot of them and see how much damage these deal, just before trampling...
Last, contrary to other tramplers, Avvite chariots have 12 MR (twice as much as elephants). They are basically cheaper elephants with better morale, better MR, more weapons, less hit points but more protection (unless you compare them to LA Arco's armored elephants).
I think noone in their right mind would pay 3 elephants if they could get 4 Avvite chariots. Of course they are more expensive resource-wise (29 instead of 20) but you don't need to supplement them with higher morale troops, and you can really afford a production scale with Hinnom.

[PvK]

I ran a fair number of turns with six female Hinnom priests in the capital and Luck-2, Life-1, and didn't get any special events. I'm not sure what I'm fishing for, if anything.

[Meglobob]

I think there are 7 (or so) tainted offspring of the Grigori. They all have titles like Son of, they look like heros but you may get them via certain special events.