Thug Commanders

[Hoplosternum]

Originally Posted by thejeff

Supposedly the Oreiads make good thugs. I haven't really really played enough with EA Arco to give advice, but with a little gear the Awe should protect them from enough attacks to survive.

I have heard that as well. Baalz, or someone else, did a couple of example equipment lists for them which looked quite impressive.

But the Arcos in general are very 'Thug poor' nations. In general they have no access to Death or Blood (LA Sybils have a chance at a little death but thats it) and no national summons that can be made in to Thugs. Nor recruitable commanders that are natural thugs - unless you consider the (EA) Oreiad as such.

Until you get to the Elemental Royalty and the other high end summons (Golems etc) there is only Troll Kings - which are expensive - and the rather moderate Sleeper chassis to turn to if you want a Thug.

Many of the original races are like this. There are lots of nice things about them but they have key weaknesses which need to be either be overcome with your Pretender design or your strategy. Some of the later designs seem to be strong everywhere

If you want to try out Thug strategies then Arco is a poor choice. It isn't that Oreiads can't be made in to Thugs but they have so many other uses and make rather unusual ones anyway. If you are interested in trying out Thugs then there are much more suitable nations to practice with.

Any of the Giant Races provides you with recruitable Giant Commanders who have useful magic paths and / or self blessable Giant commanders (plenty of HPs & strength) which are well worth adding equipment to. Pythium, Marignon, most Monkey nations and the dedicated blood nations have many national summons which can be made in to very useful Thugs. Or simply choose a race with easy access to Blood or Death (which have recruitable Thugs as summons).

By the end game everyone should have access to SCs, but Thugs often come earlier and it matters which race you play.

[Trumanator]

It depends on how weak/strong your nation is starting off. Some nations gain a great deal of benefit from having an early game SC to help out their pathetic starting army, or to help fend off an early rush. It seems though that a lot of the use of almost purely SC pretenders is when the alternatives require a lot of micromanagement and general skill. Not to bash the users of said SCs, especially as I have absolutely no claim to skill. I do tend to notice that a lot of Baalz's guides for instance are for nations that people think need an SC, but he shows that given the right spells and the right scripting you can overcome problems without it while retaining late game power.

[Skirmisher]

I use the 24 research pretender combined with those Oreiad's, philospher's don't do enough research per turn. OK they may be cheaper but I like to set up the pretender and 4 or 5 Oreiad's doing the research,then I make a mage/enginner and make quill pens for all of them.
The pretender has 7 dominion, sloth 1,growth 1, lev 2 in all magic paths except blood. Seems to be working well when playing the AI.

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by Skirmisher

I use the 24 research pretender combined with those Oreiad's, philospher's don't do enough research per turn. OK they may be cheaper but I like to set up the pretender and 4 or 5 Oreiad's doing the research,then I make a mage/enginner and make quill pens for all of them.
The pretender has 7 dominion, sloth 1,growth 1, lev 2 in all magic paths except blood. Seems to be working well when playing the AI.

Oreiads make quite respectable thugs. Stick a horror helmet on them..

[Tifone]

Doesn't the Cyclops just attack with the fist? Isn't far better to have him dormant and wait for a AoE brand or even something less good? I can't imagine him going around punching to death indeps without getting swarmed with his big size.

[JimMorrison]

I haven't personally been able to figure out how an awake Cyclops is supposed to work. My best builds were asleep, with a rush to Cons4.....

However, I've seen some players who are much more married to awake pretenders describe such things. Remember, the Cyclops does have a Fear aura, so he doesn't have to punch all of them.

[HoneyBadger]

Awake Cyclops + Black Steel Tower Shield + Piercer + Earth 8 + Dom 8 = pretty invulnerable to light militia and the like. They have natural Fear 0, which, when combined with Awe 0, makes for a fairly deadly unit, vs the weaker independents-especially if they're leading your starting army.

[Rytek]

Dominion 9 gets you Awe 0. Dominion 8 gives nothing.

[HoneyBadger]

Dom 9 then. I thought Dom 9 gave Awe 1 though, but I could be wrong.

[Rytek]

Yup.
Dominion 9 gives Awe 0
Dominion 10 gives Awe 2

And just for fun, A dominion 10 virtue has Awe 7