Units with stupid weapon choices - Page 3

HoneyBadger · #1 May 30th, 2009, 04:58 AM

I'd like to see Agartha get an upgrade (Oceania's already being discussed, maybe we could get a thread about Agartha?).
I get that they're supposed to be a "fading people", and that's cool to the point of being truly awesome, but I'd rather see more "glorious tragedy", and less "stoogelike tactics", so yeah, among other things, it would be nice if their equipment got reviewed.

Maybe give them some sort of military fork, to replace their spears? That seems like it might better gel with their low perception, while keeping true to the reality of the cave environment. It would make altering their sprites easier, too.

Another weapon that comes to mind would be a sort of "war spade" (No, I'm not married to the name). Imagine a broad metal spade that's been reinforced and sharpened all around the edge, with a metal t-section crossbar, a long metal-shod shaft, and the classic pitchfork handle. Kind of a cross between a spear and an axe--but not in quite the same way as a glaive.

Might look something like this: D=====ID

Something like that, in the hands of an Ancient Lord, might be a good deal more hand effective and "wieldy" (not to mention thematic) than the axes they currently use.

Wrana · #2 June 1st, 2009, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

Another weapon that comes to mind would be a sort of "war spade" (No, I'm not married to the name). Imagine a broad metal spade that's been reinforced and sharpened all around the edge, with a metal t-section crossbar, a long metal-shod shaft, and the classic pitchfork handle. Kind of a cross between a spear and an axe--but not in quite the same way as a glaive.

Might look something like this: D=====ID

Something like that, in the hands of an Ancient Lord, might be a good deal more hand effective and "wieldy" (not to mention thematic) than the axes they currently use.

Zen staff, anyone?

Be careful - they aren't based on China! :P

Poopsi · #3 May 30th, 2009, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Might look something like this: D=====ID

you mean something like this: 8===ID ?

HoneyBadger · #4 May 30th, 2009, 09:04 AM

No, you're thinking of another weapon, entirely.

Endoperez · #5 May 30th, 2009, 11:09 AM

Why come up with a "military fork", when the game already has the trident: a more damaging polearm already used by some Agarthans (the wet ones) IIRC. Two-handed, but could be used with bucklers like the Olm Spawn do with glaives and bucklers. Stats: Dam 7, att/def 0.

The glaive-users would suck, though. I think I released the weapon rebalance mod already, it did lots of stuff like increase precision of spears/glaives by 1 and increased damage of glaives even further. I didn't test how if affected Agarthans. Getting rid of the attack penalty should help a lot.

P3D · #6 May 30th, 2009, 01:09 PM

Underwater only the Wet One Commanders got trident, the rest have spear. Why there's a damage difference of 4 between them, I don't know, against any armor a spear should be better - the trident distributes force among three points not a single one.
And why a pike has larger damage than a longspear?

EP, will check out your mod.

Poopsi · #7 May 30th, 2009, 02:02 PM

how about replacing their spears with longspears and pikes to improve the repelling capabilities of the troopers?

Oh nevermind. They still have -beep- poor attack ...

Illuminated One · #8 May 30th, 2009, 06:24 PM

Iirc in WW1 trench warfare (which should come very close to Agartha tunnel warfare) flails and knifes were preferred to bayonets (= spear).

Wrana · #9 June 1st, 2009, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illuminated One

Iirc in WW1 trench warfare (which should come very close to Agartha tunnel warfare) flails and knifes were preferred to bayonets (= spear).

Prrecisely! Short axes and similar weapons, too. Only I seem to remember that Austrians used spiked maces, not flails.
By the way, the only good description of fight in Prof. Tolkien comes from exactly this experience - and in that fight spear gets used exactly once - as a thrown weapon.

HoneyBadger · #10 May 31st, 2009, 03:10 AM

Endoperez: Tridents would be perfectly fine. I was trying to distance them a bit from the wet ones, but there's no real pressing reason for them not to use tridents, except possibly the thematic association of tridents with the sea, which I was a bit concerned with.

P3D, you're right about the spear directing more force along it's single point, but one advantage the trident's three points gives is stability, so that it's easier to center an attack. The trident probably wouldn't be able to penetrate the armour as often, but when it did it would make a much wider and more ragged wound--thus more blood spilled, with a greater chance to clip an artery or puncture an organ. The wound would also be considerably harder to treat medically. Another advantage is-and this is specifically because it doesn't go as deep-a trident would have less of a tendancy to get stuck in an opponent.

I think giving them 7 damage is a bit much, however.

Trident stats, in my opinion, should be more like Dam 4, +1 att/0def.