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  #1  
Old December 2nd, 2009, 04:30 PM

Denis_469 Denis_469 is offline
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Default Re: Questions about soviet artillery and other in game

And more - M1A2 destroy by Malutka from BMP-1. Hole you can see near gun.
http://phorum.bratishka.ru/viewtopic.php?t=8258
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  #2  
Old December 3rd, 2009, 07:54 PM
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Default Re: Questions about soviet artillery and other in game

Look at the top of the To&e section. Do you see the thread titled "Error reporting procedure " ?? Read it please because any further reports from you that do not follow that procedure will simply be ignored. Do you see an " MT-12R" gun in the OOB's ?? No you do not because it's written up as 100mm MT12R AT because of game naming restrictions . I have what amounts to 87 printed pages of "errors" real or imagined to deal with for the next patch. If you cannot be bothered telling me the actual unit name and number I don't see a point in my wasting my time guessing so any further reports done in the way you did this one will just be ignored .

If you are interested in how another Russian PROPERTY reported errors, even though his English is no better than yours take a look here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=38643 then consider that this was just the weapons list , there was a units list as well that we spent a considerable amount of time reviewing and making corrections to the Russian OOB for the last release before assuming the game has the "western Bias" as you so clearly assume it does .

Also. I have as little ( NONE ) patience for the people complaining we haven't made everything produced in Russia some kind of wonder weapon as I do with the opposite types who want us to downgrade everything Russian to junk. We have always strived to be fair given ANY real info is classified by both sides


Point 2 Smoke is smoke in the game. The "smoke" you get with VIRSS is not smoke in a game sense. It's just a graphic to show the code is processing the info that there will be additional calculations to the to-hit code because a VIRSS event was recorded. You may have noticed VIRSS in game has no effect on any shots except the one that triggered it's release because it's not real "smoke" in game terms. There is no plans to tear apart the smoke code and risk spin off effects

Point 3 regarding the PRG-29 has already been dealt with my others. The stats in game for both it and the armour of the M1A2 will stay as is. As has been noted given the correct conditions an RPG-29 will penetrate an Abrams in the game just not every time you fire one

Point 4.. DO NOT use Wikipedia as a "source" the information found on wikipedia can sometimes be as questionable as those "documented" Abrams kills, GENERALLY any " future" weapons systems I ignore until it actually makes and appearance because over the past couple of years we've wasted a considerable amount of time pulling things out that were put in years ago that were "supposed " to be issued to the troops but ended up cancelled then we end up with a OOB that needs things taken out which just wastes our time. The M1A2 SEP Abrams with the 120mm M256 13 gun was added last patch as a what if for the people whining we had put in North Korea, Russia, China, etc future weapons systems and didn't the US. That was primarily because of things like the Chiorny Oriol were in the Russian OOB ( that is now gone and about as "real" as that T-95 tank on the wiki link ) what I should do it pull out the Abrams using that gun until someone proves it's been issued... NOT add more crap that I'll end up pulling out of the OOB in a couple of years

Point 5. There is no "2A45M" gun in the OOB by that name. When you provide the correct in game name and unit / weapon number as per the error reporting procedure I will look into it

Point 6 and 7 Have you seen ANY Heavy AA in the game ?? NO you haven't and it's not going in the Russian or any other OOB.

Point 8. FINALLY something worthwhile. When you can tell me it's out of service date in the Russian Army I will enter it

Point 9 . 75 were made and it was retired from service soon after series production was stopped in 1948. Why waste what few spots are left in that OOB on that ? If you want to play with it it's in spww2 unit slot 100

Point 10. There is NO information regarding a 305mm obr 1915 howitzer on the internet except your post and something in Czech that's been deleted

Point 11. 5 KM range ?? Really ?? http://warfare.ru/?catid=251&linkid=...-Warning-Radar says 4 km but that's for large objects and gives the following example

Detection range of man/car/helicopter/vessel, km 2 / 4 /4 / 4

any unit in the game with normal 40 vision could be said to be using one of those as 40 will pick up men moving at the eqivalant of 2 Km. As well, many of these radars are used for artillery spotting and are already represented in the game as well. As for MG and AGL use I will put that on the list to look into. It's one thing to say they CAN be used ... that doesn't mean they actually are ised by troops in the field. Prove to me they are issued in quantity to MG and AGL units and I will ensure they get into the OOB. Then we'll review if any other nation deserves 40 vision AGL's and HMG's


FINALLY......

The comment about a 12,7mm HMG taking out a Abrams is, to me, total fantasy, and the fact you repeated it as fact causes me to question any claim you may have to objectivity as this only proves you'll believe just about anything .

Don
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Old December 3rd, 2009, 09:51 PM
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Default Re: Questions about soviet artillery and other in game

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRG View Post
FINALLY......

The comment about a 12,7mm HMG taking out a Abrams is, to me, total fantasy, and the fact you repeated it as fact causes me to question any claim you may have to objectivity as this only proves you'll believe just about anything .

Don
In Soviet Russia HMG crew kill tank!


Yakov Smirnoff:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakov_S...ssian_reversal
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Last edited by Kartoffel; December 3rd, 2009 at 10:06 PM..
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Old December 7th, 2009, 10:35 PM
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Default Re: Questions about soviet artillery and other in game

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRG View Post

FINALLY......

The comment about a 12,7mm HMG taking out a Abrams is, to me, total fantasy, and the fact you repeated it as fact causes me to question any claim you may have to objectivity as this only proves you'll believe just about anything .

Don
I did see a T-62 that was taken out by a USMC LAV-25 during the first Gulf War.
The T-62 was stationary and they drilled a hole in it using the 25mm sabot rounds. As I recall the guy said it took about 100 rounds to do it
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Old December 8th, 2009, 02:15 AM
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Default Re: Questions about soviet artillery and other in game

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In 1 picture M1A2 destroy by 12,7mm HMG. Anyone can destroy M1A2 in game from 12,7mm MG?
Must have been the elusive M1A2 Halftrack
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  #6  
Old December 8th, 2009, 04:50 AM
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Default Re: Questions about soviet artillery and other in game

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Originally Posted by Suhiir View Post
I did see a T-62 that was taken out by a USMC LAV-25 during the first Gulf War.
The T-62 was stationary and they drilled a hole in it using the 25mm sabot rounds. As I recall the guy said it took about 100 rounds to do it
I have often heard this 25mm vs T-62 accident (or a similar one) being touted as the "proof" that US armor piercing rounds capabilities are greater than estimated, that DU is uber etc.
Needless to say everyone was pretty vague about the details of the engagement .
Nice to know it was cumulative damage against a static target requiring a disproportional expenditure of ammunition. Any AFV can be penetrated in this way by weapons it would normally be able to resist.

For an historical example see this King Tiger shot up at Kubinka



In the field with it moving and shooting back achieving all those hits would be a bit tad more complicated...
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Old December 8th, 2009, 03:48 PM
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Default Re: Questions about soviet artillery and other in game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcello View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suhiir View Post
I did see a T-62 that was taken out by a USMC LAV-25 during the first Gulf War.
The T-62 was stationary and they drilled a hole in it using the 25mm sabot rounds. As I recall the guy said it took about 100 rounds to do it
I have often heard this 25mm vs T-62 accident (or a similar one) being touted as the "proof" that US armor piercing rounds capabilities are greater than estimated, that DU is uber etc.
Needless to say everyone was pretty vague about the details of the engagement .
Nice to know it was cumulative damage against a static target requiring a disproportional expenditure of ammunition. Any AFV can be penetrated in this way by weapons it would normally be able to resist.

For an historical example see this King Tiger shot up at Kubinka



In the field with it moving and shooting back achieving all those hits would be a bit tad more complicated...
Do you know what part of the tank the picture features? I would also be interested to know what rounds caused the various sized holes. Nice picture
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Old December 8th, 2009, 12:33 PM
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Default Re: Questions about soviet artillery and other in game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suhiir View Post

I did see a T-62 that was taken out by a USMC LAV-25 during the first Gulf War.
The T-62 was stationary and they drilled a hole in it using the 25mm sabot rounds. As I recall the guy said it took about 100 rounds to do it
OK, fine but the issue was 12.7 mm rounds not something with 8 times the penetrative ability

Don
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Old December 9th, 2009, 12:33 PM
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Default Re: Questions about soviet artillery and other in game

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRG View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suhiir View Post

I did see a T-62 that was taken out by a USMC LAV-25 during the first Gulf War.
The T-62 was stationary and they drilled a hole in it using the 25mm sabot rounds. As I recall the guy said it took about 100 rounds to do it
OK, fine but the issue was 12.7 mm rounds not something with 8 times the penetrative ability

Don
As Marcello said it was just an example of "could happen" given optimal conditions and lots of ammo.

I suppose you could do the same with 12.7mm AP rounds - eventually. Assume each round puts a 1mm divot in a tanks armor you could drill thru with a few hundred/thousand rounds!

Of course there are always folks fail to see the difference between possible and practical
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Old December 9th, 2009, 03:20 PM
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Default Re: Questions about soviet artillery and other in game

Quote:
Do you know what part of the tank the picture features?
Hull front, as noted.

Quote:
I would also be interested to know what rounds caused the various sized holes. Nice picture
152mm,122mm and 100mm, both AP and HE, and 85mm AP. US made 76mm was also fired but possibly only at the sides.

Quote:
It looks more like something cluster ammo would cause.
Not really. HEAT typically leaves small diameter holes.Besides given the angles involved it would be very problematic.

BTW source is:
http://www.battlefield.ru
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